[dobbs59]

Looking at the 2011 Knolly brochure, I notice and am disappointed that the Endo is absent.
Is this the end-o?
I appreciate that the chilcotin is the new model and that it is quite close to the endo in terms of geo BUT what if I don't want a 6" bike with an extra 1/2lb of weight? I'd lose versatility if I went for the SL.
The endo is perfect for me and I've always said that if I ever break it, then I'd go straight out and buy another but that may not be an option any more?
There's not another bike on the market that I'd swap mine for and am anxious that in X years, I'll have to go demoing and researching other bikes.
Sorry for the moaning just sad to see the back of a truly great bike.:cryin:

 

[BC]

I suspect I'll keep riding mine until they run out of replacement parts. Best bike EVER.
Still have yet to ride the Chilco though.

 

[rzozaya1969]

While I really like my Endo, I think it's a little bit of redundant on Knolly lines. I think that the Endo evolved into the SL and Chil.

 

[dobbs59]

Hmm, a 6" AM monster or a 4" XC bike. You really don't see a gap?

 

[Dusty Bottoms]

Hmm, a 6" AM monster or a 4" XC bike. You really don't see a gap?

The Endo SL is a 5" trail bike with a 68.5 deg HT. The Chilcotin is a 6" AM bike with 67 or 66 deg HT, and weighs 7.5lb, which is only .25lb more than the 2010 Endo(with same shock). You can lose .25lbs in build weight without blinking an eye.

I think these 2 bikes cover the Endo range quite successfully.

 

[rzozaya1969]

Hmm, a 6" AM monster or a 4" XC bike. You really don't see a gap?

Honestly? Not much. I pretty much think that Knollys peddal pretty well, I'm sure that if I were searching for a bike now, or if the Chilco was available when I bought my Endo, I would have gone for it.

 

[Dude!]

I think they are pretty well covered 5", 6", 7", 8" with a lot of gray between them (less than 5" go hardtail!

I think the long-term and continuous debate (which has already started) will be which ones to own? !

When the Chilcotin and Endo SL are finally built - it is going to be very interesting to hear the thoughts and comments on ride behavior and builds...

 

[pfarrell]

Gaps Filled!

I like many of you couldnt decide which one or two to have so i did the only logical thing i could..... get them all.

I already have Endo and Delirium combo with a SL and Clili on order. Don't hvae the balls for a Podium, definately couldn't do that one justice.

Gonna set the SL up all weight weenie like as it will be replacing a hardtail singlespeed. The chili will be AM build, delirium for bigger days and the Endo will be the the only bike in the quiver with a front derailleur.

 

[Dude!]

Now that's an option! You have just successfully and exponentially increased your future PM inbox - everyone is going to query your thoughts.

So what colors?

 

[pfarrell]

Mine
Delirium is ano black
Endo- White
SL- Blue
Chilcotin-Green

Girlfriends
Delirium-Raw
Endo-white
SL- ano black

 

[Mrwhlr]

The only gripe I have is they didn't keep the BB height from the Endo for the Chilcotin. The Chilcotin and Endo SL look like they share some common rear end pieces, making economic sense for production cost control.

As long as the Delirium sticks around a while, it's all good. .

 

[dobbs59]

Sorry, but it seems that I disagree with popular opinion here. Maybe Knolly can do no wrong in some of your opinions?
There is no way that the SL can do what the endo can. Steeper and not as strong.
The chilcotin is 7.5lbs against 7lbs (endo) when I've worked hard to have a strong but light(ish) build with the endo, why do I want the extra 1/2lb when the endo is plenty strong enough? So now, I would want 2 bikes; either the SL and the chili or the SL and the delirium (which I would love) to do what my endo currently does. The beauty with the endo is its versatility IMHO. I still maintain that it would be a mistake getting rid of the endo and as 140mm rear seems to be my sweet spot I'll have to look at offerings from Turner et al. Pretty much all manufacturers have a 140mm bike in their line up. Still just my opinion and if the rest of the Knolly fans are happy with the new range then Knolly have made a smart move.

 

[jubilee]

I'm happily building my Endo this morning.

But given the chance (and I tried) I would have jumped at the Chilco with ISCG tabs, 1.5 head tube, and adjustable angles.

1/4 to 1/2 lb ain't *****....actually it might be. Go drop one before the ride and you're back down to desired weight. These aren't weight weenie bikes xc race frames anyhow.

Regardless, I've been told by Knolly that support for the Endo will continue one way or another. That could mean a different bike down the road. No complaints here.

Ride on, *****es! :thumbsup:

 

[G-AIR]

Chili vs. Endo

The only gripe I have is they didn't keep the BB height from the Endo for the Chilcotin. The Chilcotin and Endo SL look like they share some common rear end pieces, making economic sense for production cost control.

As long as the Delirium sticks around a while, it's all good. .

I think the BB height of the Endo and Chili are pretty close with the Chili in the steep geometry setting. The Chili might be a tad lower all things being equal. In fact the Endo and Chili (in steep setting) are pretty similar all around. The thing I like about the Chili is you can put it in the slack setting and have a very different bike. This is what I plan to do.

Steep setting:
Lyric Air DH set at 150 mm
2.35 Maxxis DHF tires
Air shock

Slack Setting:
Lyric Air DH set at 170 mm
2.5 Maxxis DHF EXO
Coil Shock

Both set ups I will run a ZS headset.

To the OP. In the steep setting the only major difference is 10 mm of travel in the rear. The last email I received from Knolly regarding the Chili mentioned they made a few small refinements and dropped a bit of weight. I always thought the Endo weighed more than 7 lbs.?

Can't wait till April........Large, RAW, Chili.....

TG

 

[catch22]

Keep in mind that 7 lb frame weight was just an estimate and very little was ever mentioned where it came from regarding frame size and with or without shock. The only digital scale weights I've ever heard on here was something like 8.5 lbs for a medium with headset and a DHX Air. That would put a Medium with RP23 right around 8 lbs. I honestly think the Chilcotin may be a good half pound or so lighter than the Endorphin. Knowing Noel I'm sure he's anaylized the Endorphin to death over the past four years, learned a lot about where more or less material is needed and ended up with a much more refined frame in the Chilcotin. Also keep in mind that the Endorphin as it was first sold was designed to be more of a 140mm forked bike (Fox 32 or RS Pike) that 'could' be set up with a 160mm fork. I think theversatility, stiffness and quality of rear suspension has caused the builds to skew towards bigger forks over the years. In reality I think the Sl is really the replacement for what the Endorphin was intended to be and the Chilcotin is a more refined version of what most folks are building Endorphins up to be now.

Regardless, I too am a bit sad to see the Endorphin on it's way out because it is such a phenominal bike. I can honestly say for the first time in my life I spent more than 6 months on a bike (going on 4 years now) without longing to change to some thing newer or better. The Chilcotin certainly has me wondering a bit now but I too am a little concerned about the lower bottom bracket height on some of the more techy and steeper to climb Moab and Fruita trails. Can't wait to have the chance to ride one and see if it's a legitimate worry, wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out it's a non-issue with Noel
designing it.

The last thing I think we have to realize is a smaller boutique company like Knolly can't just keep producing the same great frame forever. There comes a point where the market gets saturated and there are only so many people out there willing to pay for a frame at this price point. The new models are fantastic, fresh takes on what we know and love with the new trend of low and slack factored in. I'm not sure if I'll like them as much as the Endorphin but it wouldn't surprise me if I did. One way or another I'm looking forward to finding out and if the Endorphin still wins out for me I have no doubts that Knolly will continue to have my back if my Endorphin has any issues a few years down the road.

 

[LWK]

I bought my Endo frame last fall on sale; about 2 weeks later the Chilcotin surfaced. I knew the Endo SL was on its way but didnt know about the Chilcotin. So I was surprised the immediate question was "had I bought the wrong bike?". Price and instant gratification meant the answer was basically "no".

Regarding the weight bit, my large anodized Endo frame weighed 8lb even on my Park scale. So quite a bit more than the advertised 7.2lb. I think all manufacturer's weight claims are to be taken with a grain of salt. Same for "internet weights".

For me, the Chilcotin had alot of cool features but most were irrelevant for how I ride. The features, geometry and yes, weight made it seem to me to be too close to the Delirium.

So I guess, at least one other person who's opinion pretty much aligns with the OP.

 

[BryanS.]

Regarding the weight bit, my large anodized Endo frame weighed 8lb even on my Park scale. So quite a bit more than the advertised 7.2lb. I think all manufacturer's weight claims are to be taken with a grain of salt. Same for "internet weights".

I believe all claimed weights are based on small anodized frames. 8 lbs. for a large frame does sound right on the money based on a 7.2 lb. small.

 

[twowheelsdown2002]

I did not want the Endo SL because I wanted something slacker than my Motolite.

I did not want the Cilcotin because I wanted short chainstays for uphill traction.

The Endorphin fits perfectly in between these 2. It is a slack bike and handles great, but to me it seems the Chilcotin is biased more to high speed technical, and bigger stuff. I personally hope they don't get rid of the Endorphin, or if they do, I would like to see them offer a shorter chainstay option on the Chilcotin.

 

[Momentus]

I personally hope they don't get rid of the Endorphin, or if they do, I would like to see them offer a shorter chainstay option on the Chilcotin.

I just checked the Knolly website... seems the Endorphin has 425mm chainstays and the Chilcotin 428mm chainstays. 3mm difference. Is that really an issue?

 

[Dude!]

The difference between the Chilcotin and the Endorphin chainstays is 3mm? I would be surprised if anyone could recognize this.

I have to admit that I have become a Knolly follower, but I believe that I remain fairly critical. I was looking for a trail bike and I was not considering the Endorphin. IMO, Noel made the Delirium better - there are differences associated with it with respect to the DT. I think the Delirium is amazing. I purchased the Endo SL based on shop owner's opinion and Knolly's reputation.

Dobbs- valid points -you are probably correct that the Endorphin had more flexibility in building a bike to handle different trails. However, it is probably a small percentage that was transforming their bike on a regular basis. However, the option can be significant to many folks, especially with high bike costs.

The numbers for the Chilcotin are very good and IMO seem to provide a lot more flexibility to satisfy the all mountain category. 1.5 headtube with angleset farther opens the doors. I could almost make the Chilcotin have very similar numbers to the Endo SL. I can also make the Chilcotin similar to the Delirium. That's cool!!

Only because of my experience with the DT and Delirium, I believe that Noel would only put a product out there that is an improvement. Only time and rides will answer this...

I chatted a bunch with 006_007 offline about his thoughts - he thought the Chilcotin was an improved bike.