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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Earlier, I posted on an ebay user that paid ridiculously higher-than-retail price for a Kona P2 fork:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=145933

Cloxxi's comment: If I were [the seller], I'd have someone on another account help bring the bids up. If accidentally that makes for a winning bid, no problem, paypal some money, lose a few dimes, and try again.
Doesn't this type of scam happen all the time?


The same buyer also purchased a 20 inch Kona Unit frame from the same seller on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Kona-Unit-S...ryZ98083QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Perusing ebay today, I noticed that the seller has relisted both items, with identical descriptions (the Unit was built up, then taken apart, etc.) from the earlier auctions. Aha- I figure, the seller defaulted! No way someone really pays almost double the retail price for a fork!!! But then I look at the feedback from the original sale, expecting to see the seller tearing the guy a new one. To my surprise, the feedback is all positive and gives indication that the sale went through (Smooth transaction...Quick Payment, Thanks!).
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=hoover96745&iid=7196377740
And yet, here they are listed for sale again.
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Kona-Unit-S...198878451QQcategoryZ98083QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Kona-P2-Pro...198826189QQcategoryZ36135QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I suppose the seller may have had two identical 20" frames that were both built up and then disassembled, and selling two P2 forks days apart certainly isn't too much of a stretch, but... :(
 

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Shill?

When I heard about these hijinks I suspected Shills.
Could also be a weird form of publicity. Buyer sees ridiculous bids and searches to see what the item should sell for, sees buy it now for far less, Thinks "I better snatch that up before those other fools see this" and seller has encouraged a sale.

Just my .02
 

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Lazy People Suck
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WTB-rider said:
Good shop, can't blame them for doing what everyone else is.
What?? Yes, you can blame them. I'll bet your mom, at some point in your life, told you about the dangers of doing what everyone else is.

Whatever happened to just doing the right thing?
 

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Big Wheel Homer !!
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I don't think Bikeman.com is up to anything. They are like the other poster said a online/retail shop. I've bought several things direct from their online store and well as items they sell on e-bay, and have never had anything but good service.

I think alot of the overbidding that happens on ebay is because some people are just lazy. They don't take the time to research a item to find the best price and think because its on ebay its a good deal. Second, the item may have started out being a good deal and people don't know when to quite bidding and get cought up in a last minute bidding frenzy, and think to themselves they are not going to lose this item, and end up paying way too much.

Just my .02

Steve
 

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fraud.

bikeman is totally up to something. obviously the seller and the buyer are the same people and he is just trying to run up the prices and when it fails, he simply relists.

if an auctioneer planned a fake bidder in a real auction house he would be run out of town and possibly arrested. without digging into the pages and pages of ebay rules, I can all but guarantee that this is not allowed and he should be reported.
 

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Misfit Psycles
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if i have excess stock i can and will re-list multiple items on the bay. that doesn't mean that i am scamming people, just means i am a dumb purchaser who needs to unload items at flea market prices.

the only suspect issue i see in the transaction is that it closed (with feedback and all) so quickly following the auction...maybe the legit buyer picked the item up and paid cash and never noticed the much cheaper forks sitting on the shelf...maybe...
 

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but what I suspect is happening, based upon everyone's posts...

is that he is listing an item, overbidding on it himself under a different name in an attempt to drive up the price, fake demand and legitimize the inflated price, and then defaulting on the sale when no other idiot bites.

this would be dishonest in my books, however, I do realize that the idiot that falls for it is to blame himself, but rules are in place in alot of these organizations to protect idiots. we must continue to look out for the idiots, right?

(please say "yes", I count on it :D )

edit *
upon more thought...

I should say that I have not investigated this firsthand and I should stay out of it. I should not make assumptions, I do not know the individual or the circumstances.
 

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SS Pusher Man
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Bill Payer said:
bikeman is totally up to something. obviously the seller and the buyer are the same people and he is just trying to run up the prices and when it fails, he simply relists.

if an auctioneer planned a fake bidder in a real auction house he would be run out of town and possibly arrested. without digging into the pages and pages of ebay rules, I can all but guarantee that this is not allowed and he should be reported.
It is called "Shill Bidding".......her is what ebay has to say:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/seller-shill-bidding.html

mtnbikej
 

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Just passing through....
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Bill Payer said:
bikeman is totally up to something. obviously the seller and the buyer are the same people and he is just trying to run up the prices and when it fails, he simply relists.

.
If Bikeman is shilling, then that is indeed wrong and they should stop.

About their shop though, I've always thought very highly of them. I've made several online purchases from them and they have gone the extra mile to work out problems and keep me happy, even when the problem was my fault. In this day of horrid customer service (are you listening SRP?) you just don't see that kind of outstanding service much anymore.
 

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I'm too lazy to look, but I'm fairly certain shill bidding on your own auction to bump the price is a violation of Ebay's terms.
 

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those are Rollercams...
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Fett said:
What?? Yes, you can blame them. I'll bet your mom, at some point in your life, told you about the dangers of doing what everyone else is.

Whatever happened to just doing the right thing?
By "doing what everyone else is doing" I meant using eBay to sell, nothing more. Bikeman is certainly not the only retailer selling on eBay. Do you have proof that anything shady is going on? I'll bet YOUR Mom at some point in your life told you about the dangers of jumping to conclusions.

As for doing the right thing, be careful what accusations you make, especially without being able to substantiate them.
 

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The Top Cap Guy
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I sell on ebay and sometimes I may have 3 items identical that I'm selling. Because I work part time for a shop and work for a shop credit, so I walk out of the shop with some deals or blowouts they don't want to mess with. So I'll list say, a new front wheel only, and as soon as it sells and it is paid for I will relist the exact same auction. I will email the winner and tell them not to be alarmed when they see the same auction as I had another one to sell. It only makes sense to do it this way so that I'm not listing 3 wheels at once only to compete with myself. You know what I'm saying? I hope my auctions don't seem shady - but I figure Bikeman is a ton bigger than me so maybe they are doing the same thing? Not defending him - and if he is bidding on his own stuff with another name it's no good... he has to pay for listing it, and selling it - which will cut into his profits over time (not to mention checking the prices all the time).

Not sure where I was going with this - but here I am...

FF
 

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Not because I'm fast.....
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Well, I have bought stuff off of EBAY from both Bikeman (and Fast Freddy ;) ) and have had only good experiences. I think you guys should really concentrate your efforts on the real EBAY scammer scumbags out there and leave bikeman alone.
 

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NOTHING "shady" going on as far as I can see.

Bikeman is a shop and deals with lots of bikes and parts as a real storefront and an E-tailer. It is NOT unusual to have several of the same items around. Using the same descriptions makes sense and is easy to do.

The claims of "shills" running the price up is no more than speculation and totally out of line. A dealer would be risking way too much to do this for a few extra dollars.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Fast Freddy said:
I sell on ebay and sometimes I may have 3 items identical that I'm selling. Because I work part time for a shop and work for a shop credit, so I walk out of the shop with some deals or blowouts they don't want to mess with. So I'll list say, a new front wheel only, and as soon as it sells and it is paid for I will relist the exact same auction. I will email the winner and tell them not to be alarmed when they see the same auction as I had another one to sell. It only makes sense to do it this way so that I'm not listing 3 wheels at once only to compete with myself. You know what I'm saying? I hope my auctions don't seem shady - but I figure Bikeman is a ton bigger than me so maybe they are doing the same thing? Not defending him - and if he is bidding on his own stuff with another name it's no good... he has to pay for listing it, and selling it - which will cut into his profits over time (not to mention checking the prices all the time).

Not sure where I was going with this - but here I am...

FF
I must say, Freddy, that actually came to mind after I thought about it for a while. Reusing ads IS pretty common practice - my buddy does the same thing for the exact reasons you describe. I hope that's what it was, if so - kudos to bikeman for making a nice sale from a yahoo w/ a bidding addiction! :D
 

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What hijinks?

Bikeman has sold a ton of these forks, most around 60 bucks or so.

So someone with too much $ and no price researching way overbids and instantly the seller is guilty of being a shill? What a joke. Bikeman is too good of a dealer to deserve this caca.

We should all be jumping logs, not to conclusions!
 

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Hit The Road Cyclery
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I re-use listings all the time, for the same reason Fast Freddy stated. Also, because I'm willing to ship worldwide, I've found that often times the people bidding way over the expected value are Europeans. The Euro is a lot stronger than the Dollar right now, so what seems like a ridiculous price to someone in Kansas may actually be a great deal for some guy in Germany. I haven't looked at the auction in question, but if the seller is willing to ship overseas...
 

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it wouldnt seem strange if a bike shop was relisting multiple items(like Cambria, bikeman, greenfish)...

but when i check the bidders list at the end of the auction and see some guy with 0 or 1 feedback bidding like 20 times i definately get enraged......thats total BS or a complete newb who shouldnt even be allowed near a computer....

so who knows ...its impossible to really check that ya know....ebay has never gone out of there way to enforce rules in my opinion

-Boz
 

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The SS Boz said:
it wouldnt seem strange if a bike shop was relisting multiple items(like Cambria, bikeman, greenfish)...

but when i check the bidders list at the end of the auction and see some guy with 0 or 1 feedback bidding like 20 times i definately get enraged......thats total BS or a complete newb who shouldnt even be allowed near a computer....

so who knows ...its impossible to really check that ya know....ebay has never gone out of there way to enforce rules in my opinion

-Boz
Sure, let's ban bidding by anyone with few or no feedback! Until you get a rating of +10 you can not bid. Of course if you do not bid on and win auctions you can not receive feedback (except as a seller). Yeah! That will work!

The reason you see all though bids from a newbie bidder is because they tend not to understand how the process works. They are not going to learn how it works without making a bunch of mistakes. I went through that phase.
 
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