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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am considering a new bike purchase to replace my 2009 SJ FSR 29er and I really want something with a tapered headtube, and DW Link. The Sultan is everything I want except for the tapered headtube(and maybe a little slacker of a HA)

Clearly a tapered headtube is a good thing for 29ers(and any other single crown application for that matter), and it seems almost everyone is adopting this new standard. Why would Turner decide not to use this?

Maybe with enough requests and feedback this will happen for 2011?
 

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Fo' Bidniz in da haus
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tapered headtube would be cool...no idea how to quantify how much it could help on trail in real world. I am sure DT is thinking about this and everything else regading fugure models but the Sultan is not at the top of his to do list in terms of priorities - has to get other models sorted.

I find the 70.5 HA very nice for all arouind ridoing with a reba 120mmm. i NEVER feel the need to lower a fork and the bikes is so balanced as is but i understand the desire for slacker as well. all depends...
 

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I asked when I got my Sultan - not yet was the answer. I find it mildly amusing that a tapered head tube and a DW link are the deciders on a frame. I've never met anyone who has damaged a bike in a way that a tapered HT would have mitigated it.
 

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Monkey Wrench
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It's less about damage, more about control and stiffness. As soon as we get decent 140mm 29er forks, the tapered head tube debate should be moot, as the longer forks will demand a meatier steer tube. With the tapered head tube there is also more room to weld (or mold) a larger diameter down tube, increasing frame torsional stiffness.

I ride a DW Sultan and the 120mm straight steer tube seems perfectly fine with a 15qr fork. It would be interesting to see if RS and Fox will only produce their longer 29 forks with tapered steer tubes in order to force frame builders into the new standard when building bikes in this "new" category of long-travel 29's. I would enjoy a Sultan that is built bigger, along the lines of a WFO, but I'm not going to build mine with the existing 140mm 29" forks. If this is someday the case, I would likely move to it, but I am somewhat of a bike whore, FWIW.
If you're building this Sultan with a 120mm fork, just make sure you get some sort of thru-axle and you'll be golden. Don't wait just because it might be tapered someday...
 

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Working Man's Toilet
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you could get a Lenz Lunchbox- standard tapered HT. Still there is no fork to use.....
I am with you, though there is no point in buying a new longer travel 29er frame without a tapered HT.
 

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D3DO said:
you could get a Lenz Lunchbox- standard tapered HT. Still there is no fork to use.....
I am with you, though there is no point in buying a new longer travel 29er frame without a tapered HT.
I thought that just a couple of custom Boxes were made with tapered HT. Not that you'd know (anything) from their web site.

I love my DW Sultan, but a tapered HT would be even more better. There's an even bigger advantage in the smaller frame sizes, where the total stack height can made smaller without having to merge the top and down tubes as much.
 

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Working Man's Toilet
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fallzboater said:
I thought that just a couple of custom Boxes were made with tapered HT. Not that you'd know (anything) from their web site.
I could be wrong, but from my understanding the 2 released- Mikesee and Enel posted about are the new Lunchbox 6.0, that is the main reason for the posting. Tapered steerer, 150mm rear, hammerschmidt compatible are all standard now. IF the tapered steerer is NOT standard, I am sure that is something that Devin & CO. can do as an upgrade.

The Lenz website does need an overhaul, as the Milk Money, LB and PB&J are not even on it. Word on the street is Devin is a one man shop and is crazy busy, doing all his own R&D, fabrication and occasional paint, using his time wisely (so we can ride his bikes!!)
 

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Fo' Bidniz in da haus
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D3DO said:
I could be wrong, but from my understanding the 2 released- Mikesee and Enel posted about are the new Lunchbox 6.0, that is the main reason for the posting. Tapered steerer, 150mm rear, hammerschmidt compatible are all standard now. IF the tapered steerer is NOT standard, I am sure that is something that Devin & CO. can do as an upgrade.

The Lenz website does need an overhaul, as the Milk Money, LB and PB&J are not even on it. Word on the street is Devin is a one man shop and is crazy busy, doing all his own R&D, fabrication and occasional paint, using his time wisely (so we can ride his bikes!!)
lack of a good website means NOTHING of course. Heck, bystickel does not even have one for example. And some of our favorite dealers have far from an impressive website.
 

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Working Man's Toilet
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FoShizzle said:
lack of a good website means NOTHING of course. Heck, bystickel does not even have one for example. And some of our favorite dealers have far from an impressive website.
Amen to that.
I preferr to think he is building bikes and not his computer.
 

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This place needs an enema
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D3DO said:
I could be wrong, but from my understanding the 2 released- Mikesee and Enel posted about are the new Lunchbox 6.0, that is the main reason for the posting. Tapered steerer, 150mm rear, hammerschmidt compatible are all standard now. IF the tapered steerer is NOT standard, I am sure that is something that Devin & CO. can do as an upgrade.

The Lenz website does need an overhaul, as the Milk Money, LB and PB&J are not even on it. Word on the street is Devin is a one man shop and is crazy busy, doing all his own R&D, fabrication and occasional paint, using his time wisely (so we can ride his bikes!!)
Those two frames had a buncha custom features, including the tapered steerer, geo, and ISCG mounts.

Anyone can order one or all of those options, but they are not standard.

I wouldn't bother with ISCG again, but tapered is IMO mandatory on a 6" bike.

MC
 

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Working Man's Toilet
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mikesee said:
Those two frames had a buncha custom features, including the tapered steerer, geo, and ISCG mounts.

Anyone can order one or all of those options, but they are not standard.
I stand corrected, thank you, Mike.

What was the custom geo? and would you get that again over the standard box geo?

mikesee said:
I wouldn't bother with ISCG again
Why not?
 

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FoShizzle said:
lack of a good website means NOTHING of course.
It means something to me, when I'm e-shopping for bikes that I have no chance to see or ride before purchase. In fact, the only Lenz I've ever seen is MC's Milk Money (which did appear to be very nicely built). I prefer to have a bike that none of my buddies ride, but the lack of current information on the site was a point against me getting a Lev or Box (although I did try to buy a used Box before finding my used Sultan frame).

Maybe Devin is already selling all the bikes he can build, in which case there wouldn't be any point in improving the site, but if he wants to sell more, I believe it would help. There would be a very small investment in just adding a little more content, in fact, I bet someone here would volunteer to help him.

The other extreme is the Ellsworth site, which is almost 100% marketing drivel. Not impressed, but they do at least have the geometry of the frames.
 

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This place needs an enema
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D3DO said:
What was the custom geo? and would you get that again over the standard box geo?
Lower BB, HTA designed around a 165mm travel tapered fork that is not yet in production, tapered HT, and HT designed around the King InSet.

I'd probably do all but the last again. I smack pedals waaaay more often on this custom version, but I like the lower CoG enough to deal with it.

Tapered is awesome, but IMO the InSet thing is way more hassle than it's worth, mostly because it's still a King HS and it still has minor issues like creaking and a skosh of o-ring slop. Even with a 165mm fork I still have to use a 5mm spacer under the stem, a 12* rise stem, and a 1/2" rise bar to get the bar height where I want it, thereby (for me) negating any benefit to the lower front end the InSet gives you.

That and the InSet specific cutting tools were stupid expensive--not really a factor for anyone else considering this, I just wanted to vent.

D3DO said:
Hammerschmidt didn't solve any problems for me, but it added cost, weight, setup complexity, a less-friendly climbing gear than I'm accustomed to, and massive drag in the middle 'chainring'.

I use chain tensioners on my 6" and 7" bikes. I have a BB-mount version on the 7", which works every bit as well as the ISCG mount on the 6" bike. They were both a bit of a pain to set up, but the ISCG was more of a headache. Once set they've both been invisible, but I don't see why anyone would prefer the ISCG when the BB mount saves you money, time, and hassle, yet works the same.

MC
 

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T , V , & K Rider
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TooTallUK said:
I've never met anyone who has damaged a bike in a way that a tapered HT would have mitigated it.
Exactly , well built frames with 1 1/8 HTs are plenty strong.....maybe a 1 1/2 would be desirable for FR use but will only go tapered when its the sole option choice for a future desired frame ! TIG.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
TooTallUK said:
I asked when I got my Sultan - not yet was the answer. I find it mildly amusing that a tapered head tube and a DW link are the deciders on a frame. I've never met anyone who has damaged a bike in a way that a tapered HT would have mitigated it.
That's a better answer than not going to happen at all. :thumbsup:

I can wait. Hopefully won't have to wait til 2012 though...
 

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T , V , & K Rider
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Robert_in_ca said:
The tapered fork is stiffer, plain and simple.
No doubt.........however is it a proven fact or marketing hype ? I use a 20 mm TA fork , well built wheels ( strong & stiff ) , and such as well on my 2009 DWL Sultan with no complaints about it being a noodle ! Some claim the redesigned RIP 29er is stiffer because of the stronger HT junction that sports a tapered HT compared to the Sultan but having ridden the new RIP I'm not all that convinced ! Anyway , if Turner does go with the tapered HT on the future DWL Sultans......so much the better ! TIG.
 

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Robert_in_ca said:
The tapered fork is stiffer, plain and simple.
Likely its not the fork .... after all you still have the same 32 mm stanctions attached to the crown.

A tapered head tube allows companies to join larger down tubes to the head tube and this is IMO the added stiffness. The fork has little to do with it.

You could do an experiment to verify by using a standard 1-1/8" steerer fork in a tapered head tube bike. I highly doubt that you would feel a difference by comparison to the tapered fork.

After all, the steerer tube is restrained by the headset bearings its not really doing much of anything ....
 
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