[Yuki San]

The issue.
I am curious if any taller riders (5'11-6'2) have sized down to a Medium Warden V2? I am 6'1 and built like an ape, long torso and short legs, I only have a 30-inch inseam. I am having a hard time with the long reach on my current Warden Lt V2 size Large. I cannot seem to get enough weight over the front without losing traction on the rear. I've tried a longer stem; that helped weighting the front, but I lost even more traction on the rear, especially in high-speed turns and fast steeps. I even tried a 37mm reduced offset fork crown and that helped but killed climbing performance, the front wheel wonders like crazy now on rooty single track climbs.

The Negative??
All the Geo numbers on the size medium look good to me except for the seat tube height and stack height. I am worried I would have to run the seat post so high that I would be too far over the rear axle, thus killing climbing performance. Currently running a One Up 210mm dropper with about 25mm of post above the seat collar.

Fairly confident in bike and suspension setup; always learning and open to suggestions. This fitment Issue has me stumped???

Setup: Warden V2 size Large. 170mm. 32mm stem, Maxxis Assegai and DHR, Double Downs, 30ish psi.

Front Rear:
Fox 38 170mm 18% sag/120 psi Fox Float x2/30% sag
4 HSC 4 HSC
5 LSC 2 LSC
5 HSR 4 HSR
6 LSR 6 LSR
Mrp Ramp control 10 clicks 1 volume spacer

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

[dirtyhal]

I would think that with your body type the large would be a great fit. I am about 6'2" with a 32" inseam and I have a large warden that I think fits great. I am running 20-25mm of stack and 38mm riser bars with a 50mm stem. I was using this bike for Trail, park laps, and DH racing all last year but I was focused on park laps and DH riding so I gravitated to a higher bar setup. I noticed the bike really came alive for me in this type of riding when I raised the stack up, the inherent stack heights are so low that for you to keep it feeling balanced on steep descents especially when you have a longer torso you are going to need to raise the front end of the bike up.

The really long reach and low stack heights allow for you to raise the bars way up and still have a decent sized cockpit for DH or you can keep it lower and have a more trail oriented feel for flow trails. I think the goal when Knolly designed this bike is to make it optimal for many different riding styles and body types which for better or worse makes the window of available adjustments quite large so It might seem wild to you to stick a bunch of spacers under your stem but it is well within reason to do so.

 

[Yuki San]

Good point. Im running the same cockpit setup, just a shorter stem. I've demoed some shorter reach frames lately with similar geo numbers and I no longer had the issue of the back end unweighting and drifting unexpectedly, the Warden is so good on just about everything, I'm determined to figure this one out. I even backed off of purchasing a new frame I like it so much.

Thanks for the insight.

 

[bubba13]

I'm going to agree with what Dirtyhal said. Play with the stem length and add some stack. I was 6'1" and still have a long torso and +3 ape. I have been riding large Knolly's since 2010 and have always added more stack than most riders. I live for fast corners and I can control drifts just fine with tall stack and still enjoy the high g berms. I have found that there is a limit to how high you can go with stack until it gets janky on really fast high g stuff. Hope you get it figured out.
Cheers.

 

[catch22]

I'd be really hesitant to swap frame sizes without trying to tweak fit as others have mentioned. As was quite clear in that PB review of the Warden where the reviewer went against Knolly's sizing recommendations, downsized, and ended up with a bunch of quibbles that corresponded with being on too small of a frame.

 

[Fuse6F]

This is a low stack bike.

i dont know what year v3 is. But looking at the current bike its got a super long fc for a large.

for comparison, we have a 21 fuel ex 8 large at 470 reach and 613 stack.

its possible that you feel the front pocket of the bike is too long. Especially since the rear end doesnt grow across the sizes. This probably makes it hard to not over weight the rear before the front unweights like a light switch.

imo
it would be hard to ride a bike that requires you to put weight on the bars to obtain a better ft rr weight balance. with all the changes in grade a bike sees on a trail and the dynamic positions a rider should go through, i suspect it would be hard to keep that balance.

have a look at how the ft rr balance on the stumpjumper evo would work for you. the longer rear center and adjustable front hta will let you find the sweet spot you are missing.

 

[Yuki San]

Thank you all for the insight and helping me think this through!!.

I'm thinking that I might actually have too tall of stack height (for once) in combo with the long front center reach. I compared my stack height on my Knolly with my Dh rig, and I have them set up identical in stack height.
I'm running a pretty tall setup on the Warden.
170mm Fox 38
25mm spacers
Industrie 9 stem; claimed 40mm stack height
40mm rise Renthal bars.

As soon as the rest of my drivetrain parts come in, I'm gonna try some lower bars. Maybe a little less rear sag and back off LSC a touch. PLUS work on technique, this is the longest bike I've owned to date and the fastest and most confidence inspiring. I'll admit I've started riding sections on this bike faster than I physically know how to at times and have to real it back in.

 

[David R]

Theres definitely some room there for experimentation with stack height before doing something as drastic as changing frames! I prefer a lower front end so the short Knolly head tubes suit me, but I know thats not to everyones liking.

 

[dirtyhal]

The industry 9 stem isn't giving you 40mm of extra stack. That dimension is how much of your steer tube the stem is taking up. I think that stem is +/- 6mm rise depending on how you run it.

If your DH cockpit feels good I would take a tape measure and measure from the floor to the top of your grip on your DH bike and then measure the BB height. Subtract the bottom bracket measurement from your first measurement. Now go to your knolly and do the same thing, if this number is way off try and adjust the stem spacers so this is number is as equal as possible. It's easy to do and cheaper than buying new bars. Now if you do that and it still seems way high or you can't drop the bars enough to match your DH bike height go ahead and try some other bars.

I do this procedure for my bikes as a sanity check of sorts to make sure that I have a somewhat consistent cockpit. Also before anyone tells me about Trigonometry I realize the distance from the BB to the bars is significantly different on most bikes, I still think this is a helpful exercise to get you in the ballpark of a comfortable cockpit.

 

[Yuki San]

The industry 9 stem isn't giving you 40mm of extra stack. That dimension is how much of your steer tube the stem is taking up. I think that stem is +/- 6mm rise depending on how you run it.

If your DH cockpit feels good I would take a tape measure and measure from the floor to the top of your grip on your DH bike and then measure the BB height. Subtract the bottom bracket measurement from your first measurement. Now go to your knolly and do the same thing, if this number is way off try and adjust the stem spacers so this is number is as equal as possible. It's easy to do and cheaper than buying new bars. Now if you do that and it still seems way high or you can't drop the bars enough to match your DH bike height go ahead and try some other bars.

I do this procedure for my bikes as a sanity check of sorts to make sure that I have a somewhat consistent cockpit. Also before anyone tells me about Trigonometry I realize the distance from the BB to the bars is significantly different on most bikes, I still think this is a helpful exercise to get you in the ballpark of a comfortable cockpit.

Sweet! Thanks for the tip. You are correct about the I9 stem I got my ruler out and its right about 6mm rise.

 

[Muttonchops]

Good conversation here...and made me remember having futzed around with my bike a year or two back in the garage one added a single 2mm spacer under my bars and rotated the bars a bit in the stem. I forgot about and next time i rode i went out on a big loop. Didnt notice anything on the 60 min climb...but the instant i started descending i pulled up and realized something was wrong. I rotated the bars backwards a tad thinking that was it....but nope...rode for barely 10 seconds and stopped to rotate the bars forward...nope...that wasnt it and then i realized that spacer. I removed that and boom...it made all the difference. It so frigging crazy what a difference it makes.

I agree its a bike balance thing...front / rear => Stack / sag / compression even rebound if its too fast and causing the rear to be twitchy.

Do the bracketing thing....remove compression and rebound on the rear and see if you notice a difference. Try not to adjust two things at once

Good luck...let us know how it goes. I dig this ****.

 

[Skooks]

Good conversation here...and made me remember having futzed around with my bike a year or two back in the garage one added a single 2mm spacer under my bars and rotated the bars a bit in the stem. I forgot about and next time i rode i went out on a big loop. Didnt notice anything on the 60 min climb...but the instant i started descending i pulled up and realized something was wrong. I rotated the bars backwards a tad thinking that was it....but nope...rode for barely 10 seconds and stopped to rotate the bars forward...nope...that wasnt it and then i realized that spacer. I removed that and boom...it made all the difference. It so frigging crazy what a difference it makes.

I agree its a bike balance thing...front / rear => Stack / sag / compression even rebound if its too fast and causing the rear to be twitchy.

Do the bracketing thing....remove compression and rebound on the rear and see if you notice a difference. Try not to adjust two things at once

Good luck...let us know how it goes. I dig this ****.

Yeah it's crazy what a difference a few mm makes. My bars were just a bit too low. I felt like I was 'stuck' forward and couldn't move my weight back easily. I added a 5mm spacer under the stem and now I feel completely centered, but still able to weight the front when I need to. Keep at it, it's worth spending the time to get it right!

 

[KnollyNeal]

Yeah it's crazy what a difference a few mm makes. My bars were just a bit too low. I felt like I was 'stuck' forward and couldn't move my weight back easily. I added a 5mm spacer under the stem and now I feel completely centered, but still able to weight the front when I need to. Keep at it, it's worth spending the time to get it right!

You just got a new bike! What are you talking about getting another. You know a few mm makes more of a difference when you're riding a small.

Just joking, Skooks is a buddy. I do agree that I think we have reached peak reach. Seat tubes can only get so steep and people are the size they are. When out of the saddle seat tube angle doesn't matter but it's still a long way to the front of the bike and your weight is so pulled forward it makes it more difficult on technical terrain to move the front end around. Back when bikes were too short you used to hear of all sorts of people sizing up. Now as reach numbers on large bikes are pushing 500mm you hear all the time about people sizing down. My new Ty is 495 and I would say that it is a hair too long for me. I'm 6' tall. After spacing the stem up a bit more and reducing stem length to 35 mm its feeling great but I just can't see a normally proportioned 6' tall person wanting a reach over 500mm, maybe on some sort of super enduro sled but not an every day bike.

 

[Yuki San]

You just got a new bike! What are you talking about getting another. You know a few mm makes more of a difference when you're riding a small.

Just joking, Skooks is a buddy. I do agree that I think we have reached peak reach. Seat tubes can only get so steep and people are the size they are. When out of the saddle seat tube angle doesn't matter but it's still a long way to the front of the bike and your weight is so pulled forward it makes it more difficult on technical terrain to move the front end around. Back when bikes were too short you used to hear of all sorts of people sizing up. Now as reach numbers on large bikes are pushing 500mm you hear all the time about people sizing down. My new Ty is 495 and I would say that it is a hair too long for me. I'm 6' tall. After spacing the stem up a bit more and reducing stem length to 35 mm its feeling great but I just can't see a normally proportioned 6' tall person wanting a reach over 500mm, maybe on some sort of super enduro sled but not an every day bike.

I would agree we are getting maxed out on reach numbers. Just for fun I dug up the numbers on my old 2010 Transition and it had an 1150mm wheelbase, 433.6mm reach and a 50mm stem, size Large LOL!!!

Its looking like the 500m reach might be a touch too long for me, lowered the stack height 10mm and my arms are too short, elbows are locked straight now to reach the bars. I guess I'll just learn to ride it. Figures, I did NORCO'S online fitment calculator just to get an idea... after I entered in my measurements it said to re-enter them as I was outside their parameters.

 

[Fuse6F]

based on your comments

bring the stack height up as much as you can and install taller bars on a shorter stem, this will reduce the effective reach.

that gives you more room to move around.

 

[Yuki San]

Got it figured out!! It was combo of a few things. I brought the bars up 10mm (50mm rise), lengthened the stem to a 35mm. Couldn't believe how much of a difference 3mm made. Got the rear shock serviced as well, it had less than 50hrs, but the tech said the oil was pretty smoked and was a little low, getting a lot more support from the LSC circuit now, keeping the back end up more; feels balanced now.

Thanks for all the help!
cheers