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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I have a ZTR Crest 650b front with a Neo Moto 2.3. Fantastic combo even if the tire is at least 100 grams heavier than other xc options (I'm a slight WW but the traction inspires a lot of confidence so I keep it on for now).

The rear is a 26" with a 2.1 Crossmark. Put next to the aforementioned front there is an obvious difference visually and it also slackens my 71d HA a bit and raises the bb, both of which are pluses for my usage.

Now I'm wondering what the pluses are when I put on my very tall 26" WTB MutanoRaptor 2.4 Race on the 26" rear rim. The visual differences to the 650b are, well, it appears to be minimal.

2.1 crossmark wheel vs neo moto 650b wheel = whoa!
2.1 crossmark vs mutanoraptor 2.4 wheel = hey, one wheel is smaller compared to the other
2.4 mutanoraptor on 26" rim vs 650b neo moto 2.3 = without measuring they look almost the same against the wall....I doubt there's more than a few mm diff.

I'd lose the slightly slackened HA running the 26" 2.4 tall tire but can a very tall high volume tire such as the 2.4 mutanoraptor on a 26" wheel have an increased circumference which basically makes it roll and quickly spool up to speed like a 650b?

*please, no DC rants about wheel size vs wheel size vs wheel size. I ride all three.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Interesting.

If I didn't have the awesome 2.3 neo moto up front and had, say, a 2.1 650b, then I wonder if the diameter vs the tall 2.4 26" mutanoraptor would be super close thus negating any benefit of a larger 650b.

One reason I posted was due to rotating weight. Thinking the 600-ish gram tall 2.4 mutano on a 26" ztr crest up front would roll like a smaller 650b tire not to mention the slight weight savings and extra lateral stiffness of the smaller wheel. Guess I'll take the 650b 2.3 neo moto off and go "old school" and use my 26" front for a day to see.

Just thinking aloud. Not wanting to start any debates. As usual, gvs_nz, appreciate your input.

My tallest is Michelin wildrock'r 2.25 and Nobby Nic 2.4. Both still 15mm less dia than Neo 2.3. Makes big difference using neo 2.3 in the front. Can't say I notice too much difference in the rear.
 

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I've used a Maxxis Ardent 2.25 as a rear companion to a 2.35 Neo/Stans 355. The Ardent - nice rear tire btw, light, fast and grippy enough - is very tall, I believe at least as tall as the 2.4 Mutano.

The bike was visually balanced with that combo, and had some awesome ride qualities (Mojo SL). But when I measured the diameters (spirit level and a clean wall), the Neo was over 10mm taller. Looks are deceiving...

I've since wedged a 2.1 Neo/355 into the rear of the same frame. Pure backcountry brilliance with this frame/fork (130mm) combination and still under 25 lbs. Not going back for this particular bike.

Suffice to say that with rubber alone & regardless of wheel diameter, you can certainly tweak a bike to handle closer to the way you'd like. I giggle at the wheel size arguments. When you get to real cartoon tires, though, I find it's better to bump the diameter - rubber+air just isn't as stiff as metal...

That last bit is tongue in cheek, but holds truth. Maybe you could find a 26" tire close in diameter to a short 650b, but it will never ride the same, because that extra 10-15mm of rubber & air simply will never behave like aluminum & steel spokes..

Keep messing around - I bet you find a sweet spot...on that bike anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Awesome!! :thumbsup:

I've used a Maxxis Ardent 2.25 as a rear companion to a 2.35 Neo/Stans 355. The Ardent - nice rear tire btw, light, fast and grippy enough - is very tall, I believe at least as tall as the 2.4 Mutano.

The bike was visually balanced with that combo, and had some awesome ride qualities (Mojo SL). But when I measured the diameters (spirit level and a clean wall), the Neo was over 10mm taller. Looks are deceiving...

I've since wedged a 2.1 Neo/355 into the rear of the same frame. Pure brilliance with this frame/fork (130mm) combination and still under 25 lbs. Not going back for this particular bike.

Suffice to say that with rubber alone & regardless of wheel diameter, you can certainly tweak a bike to handle closer to the way you'd like. I giggle at the wheel size arguments. When you get to real cartoon tires, though, I find it's better to bump the diameter - rubber+air just isn't as stiff as metal...

That last bit is tongue in cheek, but holds truth. Maybe you could find a 26" tire close in diameter to a short 650b, but it will never ride the same, because that extra 10-15mm of rubber & air simply will never behave like aluminum & steel spokes..

Keep messing around - I bet you find a sweet spot...on that bike anyway.
 

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I am running a 650b Racing Ralph 2.2 up front and a Racing Ralph 26 x 2.4 out back. The 26 x 2.4 is 14mm shorter than the 650b. You would need a pretty massive tire to be the same size as a 650b.
 

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noMAD man
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I always use this comparison. I have an '06 Marz 66SL fork. It will accept a Michelin DH32 in the 2.8 size. This is a freakin' huge, aggressive DH tire. The Gazzy 3.0 may be the only tire taller than the DH32 in the 26" sizes. My 2.3 Neo will not run in the 66SL fork without making contact with the arch. Without throwing out exact height numbers in mm's, it's clear that the 2.3/650B is darned tall. Some of this also depends on the rim you run. I would love to see a 2.5 Neo or similar 650B with a height profile of the 2.3 Neo but a wider carcass. My P35 rim, Nomad, and I would love it.
 

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Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
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I always use this comparison. I have an '06 Marz 66SL fork. It will accept a Michelin DH32 in the 2.8 size. This is a freakin' huge, aggressive DH tire. The Gazzy 3.0 may be the only tire taller than the DH32 in the 26" sizes. My 2.3 Neo will not run in the 66SL fork without making contact with the arch. Without throwing out exact height numbers in mm's, it's clear that the 2.3/650B is darned tall. Some of this also depends on the rim you run. I would love to see a 2.5 Neo or similar 650B with a height profile of the 2.3 Neo but a wider carcass. My P35 rim, Nomad, and I would love it.
TNC,

Bicycle tires (generally speaking) have an aspect ratio of 1:1. It would be interesting to experiment with lower aspect ratio's (wider than they are tall) to see what performance benefit (if any) could be achieved...

Cheers,
KP
 

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www.derbyrims.com
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...
Now I'm wondering what the pluses are when I put on my very tall 26" WTB MutanoRaptor 2.4 Race on the 26" rear rim. The visual differences to the 650b are, well, it appears to be minimal.
...
The Mutanoraptor 26x2.4 are quite tall for 26 inch trail tires. They measured 1/8 inch less than 27 inches, 26.875 inches diameter when I measured mine next to the Neo-Moto 650bx2.3 at 27.5 inches. The Neo-motos raise the axle only only 5/16 inch, 0.3125 inch higher than a Mutanoraptor.

The Mutanoraptor was my favorite tire for California trails for many years before trying 650b. But too light weight for sharp volcanic rocky conditions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Indeed. For my local trails the 2.4 is near perfect. I haven't had a sidewall rock encounter with this tire in over 6 years. Fast light high volume inexpensive.

Thanks for the measurements. Taking that tire out and swapping it on for a loop just to remind myself why I took it off and put the lower height 2.1 Crossmark on. Maybe the steeper HA will be that "ah, now I remember" or maybe the larger tire and its faster rolling will go back on permanently.

The Mutanoraptor 26x2.4 are quite tall for 26 inch trail tires. They measured 1/8 inch less than 27 inches, 26.875 inches diameter when I measured mine next to the Neo-Moto 650bx2.3 at 27.5 inches. The Neo-motos raise the axle only only 5/16 inch, 0.3125 inch higher than a Mutanoraptor.

The Mutanoraptor was my favorite tire for California trails for many years before trying 650b. But too light weight for sharp volcanic rocky conditions.
 
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