Anyone know where I may find directions on how this is done? I know Enduro has some good info, but nothing on Talas even though they sell a Talas wiper seal replacement kit. Also don t have info on how much oil, wt......etc. Any help is appreciated.
Talas Wiper Seal Replacement
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You can download the Fox service manual from their website. It's the same basic instructions for the Enduro seals as the Fox.
http://www.foxracingshox.com/fox_tech_center/owners_manuals/06_32mm_en.pdf
http://www.foxracingshox.com/fox_tech_center/owners_manuals/06_32mm_en.pdf
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You can look at the pics for the F100X at our site while following this basic procedure:way2slow said:
DIS-ASSEMBLY:
1) Secure the fork in a work stand or similar arrangement.
2) Place a large bucket under the fork.
3) Remove the fixing nut on the damper side (right side from rider's perspective), turn the nut over, and thread it on a few turns, so that exposed threads are visible between the nut and the bottom of the fork leg.
4) On the TALAS side, do the same thing with the fixing nut (on this side there is a screwdriver slot in the rod to keep it from spinning).
5) Release the air out of the Schrader valve at the top of the TALAS leg.
6) On the TALAS side, tap the rod upwards by striking the fixing nut. Be prepared for oil to drain out.
7) On the damper side, if you have a TALAS R fork, undo the top of the damper/top cap as per the Vanilla instructions. (If you have the RLC, you will need to reference the FOX instructions and remove the additional levers and dials before backing out the damper/top cap).
8) Tap the rod upwards by striking the fixing nut, and be prepared for LOTS of oil to drain out.
9) Service the damper and change the seals per our online Vanilla instructions: http://www.enduroforkseals.com/id28.html .
RE-ASSEMBLY:
Starting with the uppers and lowers separated, the damper removed and drained, and the new seals and wipers installed:
1) Pump some air into the TALAS leg to keep the rod extended.
2) Put the stanchion/crown/steer tube assembly in the bike stand or vise upside down.
3) Grease the insides of the new seals and wipers.
4) Start the lower assembly onto the stanchions, but only slide them part way on (you don't want the rod sticking through the hole yet).
5) Add 20cc 7wt fork fluid through the casting hole on the TALAS side.
6) Slide the lovers down further until the threaded rod end is sticking out on the TALAS side.
7) Secure the foot nut on the TALAS side (using either the old or a new crush washer).
8) Turn the fork back over and slide the damper into place.
9) Tighten the foot nut on the damper side (using either the old or a new crush washer).
10) Relieve the air on the TALAS side again so that you can partially compress the fork.
11) Add the 160 cc of fork fluid incrementally to the damper side, working the damper up and down, as well as extending and compressing the fork so that the oil fills the damper and any other voids.
12) Tighten the damper top/top cap into the crown and add whatever hardware you need to depending on your fork model. Refer to the Fox manual for proper alignment and adjustment of these knobs and levers.
Nobody appears to be addressing Way2Slow's actual question here.... None of the Fox manuals or the enduro seal instructions make any mention of how to remove the Talas side (the side with the air preload) on any Talas fork. I looked throug all of the fox manuals from 2004 to 2006 and there is no mention or instructions on how to remove the Talas side. All the instructions mention that you need to remove the air preload cap with a 26mm socket after you remove the bottom nut and drain the oil, but you can not remove the top air cap on a talas with a socket because the entire outside ring of the talas air spins freely and has no socket surface at all.
How do you remove the Talas side (air side) of a Talas fork? I am attempting to do an oil change and a seal change so I am assuming I will need to pull the air side assembly out.
Does anyone know of the proper procedure for dealing with a Talas fork specifically?
Thanks,
--Shlepp--
How do you remove the Talas side (air side) of a Talas fork? I am attempting to do an oil change and a seal change so I am assuming I will need to pull the air side assembly out.
Does anyone know of the proper procedure for dealing with a Talas fork specifically?
Thanks,
--Shlepp--
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That's because you don't remove it when doing a routine oil and seal change. If you were to take the cap off of the TALAS side, you would enter a whole new world of required tools and knowledge. Everything you need to do with the TALAS side is listed in the step by step already posted above. The TALAS may operate simply, but it is not a simple design internally. Of course, like many other things on this board, there are those who have the tools and knowlege and will say that it is not too hard to service the TALAS cartridge yourself. Trust me, the average DIY mechanic should not disassemble the TALAS cartridge.Shleppy said:
Thanks for the input everyone ! I really appreciate the info.
I ended up coming to the same conclusion when I pulled the fork apart shortly after posting my last message.. and that conclusion was that the Talas chamber didn't need to be pulled out to change the oil or to change the seals. (Duh.. not sure why I was so convinced it needed to come out..) I was able to pull out the damper, pull off the sliders and drain the old oil without monkeying with the talas chamber at all.
I worked as a bike mechanic for about 10 years (and have rebuilt countless forks) but I stopped working as a wrench right as fox came into the scene so my experience with rebuilding them is minimal. I have no fear of taking forks apart.... but when I pulled the fork apart fork and saw the talas chamber had no easily identifiable way to remove it.. I put on the brakes and left it alone. Sounds like that was a wise move.
Now I have the fork drained, the new seals put in and I am ready to put the puppy back together. The fox manual has most of the info on how to do this, but it misses a few concepts on the Talas. Perhaps one of you could assist me with a few questions? Sorry but I have quite a few questions...
1 - All of the Fox Air Preload forks (like the float) seem to need new fox float fluid put into the top of the air chamber side when rebuilding the fork. It sounds like this fluid is just there to keep some minimal lube and to help seal up the air chamber, but does the Talas chamber ever need this replaced?
2. When I removed the left side (talas side) bottom nut, a very small bit of oil drained out (just a little bit). When I rebuild the fork, how much oil do I need to re-insert into the bottom of the left (Talas) side leg and what weight should the oil be? There obviously needs to be some oil here to help lube the bottom internal slider on the Talas chamber.
3- My new seal kit (with new wipers and foam rings) came with three washers. Two small black washers (the crush washers) and one small silver washer. What is the silver washer?
4- Both of the bolts on the bottom of my fork legs appears to have extremely thin crush washers (about 1/4 the thickness of the new ones) that are kind of unified with the bolts themselves. They don't seem to want to pop off the bolts, so do I just leave the bolts as is and put the new crush washers on top of these super thin washers when I put the fork back together?
5- Fox recommends using fox fully synthetic suspension oil. Is this really necessary? Every fork I have owned and rebuilt, I have rebuilt with Spectro fork oil, but since I have not rebuilt a fox fork before perhaps their fork fluid behaves a bit different?
6. I have crud loads of 2.5wt, 5wt, 10wt and 15wt fork fluid, but I don't have 7.5 wt fluid (which is what is the stock fluid weight is). Anyone ever mixed 50% of 5wt with 50% of 10wt to acheive the same 7.5 wt that is recommended?
Thanks again Everyone !
--Shlep--
I ended up coming to the same conclusion when I pulled the fork apart shortly after posting my last message.. and that conclusion was that the Talas chamber didn't need to be pulled out to change the oil or to change the seals. (Duh.. not sure why I was so convinced it needed to come out..) I was able to pull out the damper, pull off the sliders and drain the old oil without monkeying with the talas chamber at all.
I worked as a bike mechanic for about 10 years (and have rebuilt countless forks) but I stopped working as a wrench right as fox came into the scene so my experience with rebuilding them is minimal. I have no fear of taking forks apart.... but when I pulled the fork apart fork and saw the talas chamber had no easily identifiable way to remove it.. I put on the brakes and left it alone. Sounds like that was a wise move.
Now I have the fork drained, the new seals put in and I am ready to put the puppy back together. The fox manual has most of the info on how to do this, but it misses a few concepts on the Talas. Perhaps one of you could assist me with a few questions? Sorry but I have quite a few questions...
1 - All of the Fox Air Preload forks (like the float) seem to need new fox float fluid put into the top of the air chamber side when rebuilding the fork. It sounds like this fluid is just there to keep some minimal lube and to help seal up the air chamber, but does the Talas chamber ever need this replaced?
2. When I removed the left side (talas side) bottom nut, a very small bit of oil drained out (just a little bit). When I rebuild the fork, how much oil do I need to re-insert into the bottom of the left (Talas) side leg and what weight should the oil be? There obviously needs to be some oil here to help lube the bottom internal slider on the Talas chamber.
3- My new seal kit (with new wipers and foam rings) came with three washers. Two small black washers (the crush washers) and one small silver washer. What is the silver washer?
4- Both of the bolts on the bottom of my fork legs appears to have extremely thin crush washers (about 1/4 the thickness of the new ones) that are kind of unified with the bolts themselves. They don't seem to want to pop off the bolts, so do I just leave the bolts as is and put the new crush washers on top of these super thin washers when I put the fork back together?
5- Fox recommends using fox fully synthetic suspension oil. Is this really necessary? Every fork I have owned and rebuilt, I have rebuilt with Spectro fork oil, but since I have not rebuilt a fox fork before perhaps their fork fluid behaves a bit different?
6. I have crud loads of 2.5wt, 5wt, 10wt and 15wt fork fluid, but I don't have 7.5 wt fluid (which is what is the stock fluid weight is). Anyone ever mixed 50% of 5wt with 50% of 10wt to acheive the same 7.5 wt that is recommended?
Thanks again Everyone !
--Shlep--
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1,692 Posts
Remove the air cap then use a 10mm socket to remove the nut holding the Schrader valve. That'll allow you to remove the travel adjust knob. Under there you'll see the familiar 26mm topcap. You'll also see a red screw and a couple of other screws. I wouldn't mess with those unless you have the FOX IFP tool, which grants you access to the TALAS air chamber, which is accessed through the port under the red screw. (I think you can use a football needle if you feel the need to mess with the internals here.)Shleppy said:
Also, that crush washer at the bottom of the TALAS side is NOT the same as the other crush washers found on other FOX forks; it's a metal washer, vice the plastic ones they use elsewhere, usually on the damper side.
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Shleppy's questions:
1 - All of the Fox Air Preload forks (like the float) seem to need new fox float fluid put into the top of the air chamber side when rebuilding the fork. It sounds like this fluid is just there to keep some minimal lube and to help seal up the air chamber, but does the Talas chamber ever need this replaced?
A: Not to be nitpicky, but the forks you are talking about are not air preload or air assist. They are air spring forks. Since the TALAS side will probably need to be factory serviced within the first 2 years of regular riding, you probably don't need to worry about any lubrication of the TOP of the TALAS side.
2. When I removed the left side (talas side) bottom nut, a very small bit of oil drained out (just a little bit). When I rebuild the fork, how much oil do I need to re-insert into the bottom of the left (Talas) side leg and what weight should the oil be? There obviously needs to be some oil here to help lube the bottom internal slider on the Talas chamber.
A: Please read step 5 of the Re-Assembly Procedure in my previous post.
3- My new seal kit (with new wipers and foam rings) came with three washers. Two small black washers (the crush washers) and one small silver washer. What is the silver washer?
A: You'll notice the silver washer has a smaller ID. It's the crush washer for the TALAS side (although it doesn't crush since they switched to metel). BTW, note for others, the nylon TALAS crush washers are still fine to use.
4- Both of the bolts on the bottom of my fork legs appears to have extremely thin crush washers (about 1/4 the thickness of the new ones) that are kind of unified with the bolts themselves. They don't seem to want to pop off the bolts, so do I just leave the bolts as is and put the new crush washers on top of these super thin washers when I put the fork back together?
A: The old crush washers are crushed. Cut them off and use new ones.
5- Fox recommends using fox fully synthetic suspension oil. Is this really necessary? Every fork I have owned and rebuilt, I have rebuilt with Spectro fork oil, but since I have not rebuilt a fox fork before perhaps their fork fluid behaves a bit different?
A: No. Not necessary, but better. Those who are good enough riders to push the limits can tell the difference. At least that's what they tell me. The Fox stuff is top quality. Torco RSF Medium is the same formulation. So is what we sell on the website.
6. I have crud loads of 2.5wt, 5wt, 10wt and 15wt fork fluid, but I don't have 7.5 wt fluid (which is what is the stock fluid weight is). Anyone ever mixed 50% of 5wt with 50% of 10wt to acheive the same 7.5 wt that is recommended?
A: Yes. Fork fluids can be mixed to achieve different viscosities. However, some of these weight ratings are questionable and even random. Do a search on oil viscosities on this forum and you will get some good info.
1 - All of the Fox Air Preload forks (like the float) seem to need new fox float fluid put into the top of the air chamber side when rebuilding the fork. It sounds like this fluid is just there to keep some minimal lube and to help seal up the air chamber, but does the Talas chamber ever need this replaced?
A: Not to be nitpicky, but the forks you are talking about are not air preload or air assist. They are air spring forks. Since the TALAS side will probably need to be factory serviced within the first 2 years of regular riding, you probably don't need to worry about any lubrication of the TOP of the TALAS side.
2. When I removed the left side (talas side) bottom nut, a very small bit of oil drained out (just a little bit). When I rebuild the fork, how much oil do I need to re-insert into the bottom of the left (Talas) side leg and what weight should the oil be? There obviously needs to be some oil here to help lube the bottom internal slider on the Talas chamber.
A: Please read step 5 of the Re-Assembly Procedure in my previous post.
3- My new seal kit (with new wipers and foam rings) came with three washers. Two small black washers (the crush washers) and one small silver washer. What is the silver washer?
A: You'll notice the silver washer has a smaller ID. It's the crush washer for the TALAS side (although it doesn't crush since they switched to metel). BTW, note for others, the nylon TALAS crush washers are still fine to use.
4- Both of the bolts on the bottom of my fork legs appears to have extremely thin crush washers (about 1/4 the thickness of the new ones) that are kind of unified with the bolts themselves. They don't seem to want to pop off the bolts, so do I just leave the bolts as is and put the new crush washers on top of these super thin washers when I put the fork back together?
A: The old crush washers are crushed. Cut them off and use new ones.
5- Fox recommends using fox fully synthetic suspension oil. Is this really necessary? Every fork I have owned and rebuilt, I have rebuilt with Spectro fork oil, but since I have not rebuilt a fox fork before perhaps their fork fluid behaves a bit different?
A: No. Not necessary, but better. Those who are good enough riders to push the limits can tell the difference. At least that's what they tell me. The Fox stuff is top quality. Torco RSF Medium is the same formulation. So is what we sell on the website.
6. I have crud loads of 2.5wt, 5wt, 10wt and 15wt fork fluid, but I don't have 7.5 wt fluid (which is what is the stock fluid weight is). Anyone ever mixed 50% of 5wt with 50% of 10wt to acheive the same 7.5 wt that is recommended?
A: Yes. Fork fluids can be mixed to achieve different viscosities. However, some of these weight ratings are questionable and even random. Do a search on oil viscosities on this forum and you will get some good info.
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