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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anyone done it? The rapid rise LX derailleur on my new 2005 Trance 3 is killing me - can't find a gear, just when I need one, then shifts just to surprise/spite me later. This is in addition to the logic conflict of a reverse-direction derailleur in the first place - who really needs to punch it into a HIGHER gear? I need to jump a couple gears lower when I'm surprised by a climb. But anyway, I've got a 2005 conventional LX derailleur and would like to switch it in. Any reason I wouldn't?

I've read discussion of chain line problems on Trances - not sure what that means, is my affliction related to it? Thoughts?
 

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There's absolutely nothing to stop you from switching out the derailer, only thing will happen is the gear selector will show in reverse to what it does using the rapid rise.

Can't see that going to rapid rise from the old system would be that hard :confused: when I first got my T3 I had a bit of trouble for prob the first couple rides but soon grew quite accustomed to it.

If however you are actually having trouble that the gears aren't actually shifting when you select them then you need to do some investigation before going to the other derailer as it more than likely could be a cable problem - you might have a bent cable housing, dirty cable, badly adjusted derailer - the list is quite long on the things you could check.

Are you familiar with wrenching your own bike, if not this might be the problem? If the bike is relatively new what you may be experiencing is cable stretch which normally happen (depending on how much riding you do) 3 to 4 weeks after getting a new bike as the cable settles and stretches. Have you tried adjusting the derailer/taking up somer more cable making the cable tighter. Remember that the cable require LESS tension to shift to an easier/lower gear e.g Granny. I've had my T3 for 9 months and put in over 2300+ miles AND seriously smacked my LX derailer onto a rock and into the spokes and it's still working fine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks. All good points on possible malfunctioning causing my grief. I'll definitely get it back to the seller for a free tune to see if that shakes out the issue. I'm new to wrenching and am still gathering the right refs and tools. Still, I have a problem with the RR concept - I hardly ever have the sudden need to shift UP multiple gears in rapid succession, with a long thumb punch (as the RR allows); my typical plight is coming upon an unexpected climb and needing to downshift several gears quickly. I haven't had trouble mentally transitioning to a thumb punch to jump to higher gears, it doesn't seem to make sense from an ergo perspective.

So, this has nothing to do with the chain line issue reported by others?
 

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I dont think this has anything to do with chain alignment.

Personally I put my bike on a stand, spin the tires, and shift a good 100 times up and down after installing new derrailers or anything. It seems stupid, but it always has worked for me. I also take all psi out of the rear shock and run it through suspension. Depending on the fork, I will also make that go through it's suspension if it has disc brakes. I did this to my friends bike and it stretched his cables, he was having sevre shifting and braking problems. I adjusted his derrailer and the problem persisted. I went though and stretched the cable as stated above. I thought for sure it wouldnt work but it did to my amazement.

Rapid Rise is a godsend, and I miss it as ive since gone to X7 shifters. I usually have to shift up very fast, and it was nice just jamming my thumb. I like X7 a lot more though... its a tradeoff I suppose. Might be going back to rapid rise shifter soon.
 

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swoodbrn said:
Thanks. Still, I have a problem with the RR concept - I hardly ever have the sudden need to shift UP multiple gears in rapid succession, with a long thumb punch (as the RR allows); my typical plight is coming upon an unexpected climb and needing to downshift several gears quickly. I haven't had trouble mentally transitioning to a thumb punch to jump to higher gears, it doesn't seem to make sense from an ergo perspective.
Well the real benefit of the new RR derailer systme is meant for exactly what you want, except that you can't "dump" 3 gears at a time. By this I mean that the RR derailer is meant to move the chain up to the largest/easiest to pedal cog if there is no tension on it - i.e. by nature it is easier to shift up/easier gear than to shift down/harder gear.

As for the chainline issue that is a whole other story........ Right now I'm running Shimano XT HollowTech2 cranks with a 68mm BB shell, yet I only run 1 spacer on the drive side using a 47.5mm chainline as opposed to Shimano's recomendation of 50mm. I find this works much better than 50mm (as the optimal chainline is actually around 45mm) and makes the gear combos a bit more "how they should be". Also I don't actually run 5mm of spacers on the non-drive side since when I measured the cups and tube installed together outside the BB they measure under 68mm with all the spacers, so what did I do you ask..... I sanded down one spacer app 1.5mm, so now the non-drive side has 3.5mm of spacers instead of 5mm and the tube should fit snuggly against each bearing cup. With this setup when I have my bike in middle-ring and 5 cassette gear I have a perfectly straight line. Now every frame and every manufacturer will have diff measurements so you will have to check "your" own personal frame and BB to see if such is true.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I know what you mean about RR making it easier to go to a larger cog (against gravity, I think Shimano claims). I've just never really had such difficulty using my thumb to get there. Anyway, I actually had several occasions to want to jump UP a couple gears quickly today, as I was climbing and wanted to get off the saddle and to pound the last few pedals to the peak. The RR would have been the right system, but it crapped out again, missed the shift, and it was even under tension. Clearly, I need to try a tune.
 

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I hear ya there... cant even begin to say how many times ill be going through a ditch on my highest gear, then trying to gear up to get up the other side and RR just doesnt do its job. Im still waiting for my SRAM though. 2 weeks without my bike so far, and counting :mad:
 

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swoodbrn said:
I know what you mean about RR making it easier to go to a larger cog (against gravity, I think Shimano claims). I've just never really had such difficulty using my thumb to get there. Anyway, I actually had several occasions to want to jump UP a couple gears quickly today, as I was climbing and wanted to get off the saddle and to pound the last few pedals to the peak. The RR would have been the right system, but it crapped out again, missed the shift, and it was even under tension. Clearly, I need to try a tune.
Careful with the STOCK T3, it is a very dangerous machine as it comes setup from GIANT IMHO. I nearly lost my jewels a couples times while trying to hammer in middle-ring and 3,4,5 cassette combos. Changed out the sh1TTy RF crankset that came with it for an old square taper Deore or below and lost the problem, then put the RF middle-ring on the Deore and still no prob .Later on (800 miles) Iput back on the RF set but used the Deore middle-ring and that also worked- personally think maybe the crankset was not stiff enough and set the chainline wrong. But in the end I think it comes down mostly to chainline - It's just not a nice feeling when you get to s spot in a trail where you may need to pause and then hammer and have the chain/gears slip.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
LyNx said:
Careful with the STOCK T3, it is a very dangerous machine as it comes setup from GIANT IMHO. I nearly lost my jewels a couples times while trying to hammer in middle-ring and 3,4,5 cassette combos. Changed out the sh1TTy RF crankset that came with it for an old square taper Deore or below and lost the problem, then put the RF middle-ring on the Deore and still no prob .Later on (800 miles) Iput back on the RF set but used the Deore middle-ring and that also worked- personally think maybe the crankset was not stiff enough and set the chainline wrong. But in the end I think it comes down mostly to chainline - It's just not a nice feeling when you get to s spot in a trail where you may need to pause and then hammer and have the chain/gears slip.
Yes, EXTREMELY not a nice feeling. So, that's why it sometimes slips gears when I'm grinding - b/c of the chainline problem, caused by a crappy/weak crankset? Not ready to swap out cranks and rings just yet - I'll have to live with it.

OK, my last gripe with the RR system - after a period of braking (say, downhill, approaching a switchback), you typically need to be in a lower gear (easier peddle for slower speed), however, you can't get there b/c the finger you need to downshift on RR is the same you're using to pull the brake lever with. Right?
 

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swoodbrn said:
Yes, EXTREMELY not a nice feeling. So, that's why it sometimes slips gears when I'm grinding - b/c of the chainline problem, caused by a crappy/weak crankset? Not ready to swap out cranks and rings just yet - I'll have to live with it.

OK, my last gripe with the RR system - after a period of braking (say, downhill, approaching a switchback), you typically need to be in a lower gear (easier peddle for slower speed), however, you can't get there b/c the finger you need to downshift on RR is the same you're using to pull the brake lever with. Right?
Your reflexes are too slow Grasshopper, you need to speed them up :D Seriously it just takes a brief moment to flick the downshift lever and back on the brakes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I'll grant you my riding inadequacies - doesn't make it any less of a design error, and I'd still call it a design error, rather than a user error. I've now ridden a pretty broad range of conditions and haven't realized a benefit of RR yet. More to come, I guess.
 

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swoodbrn said:
I'll grant you my riding inadequacies - doesn't make it any less of a design error, and I'd still call it a design error, rather than a user error. I've now ridden a pretty broad range of conditions and haven't realized a benefit of RR yet. More to come, I guess.
Wel then consider moving to the new single brake/shift lever Shimano has, a lot of peole seem to like them and they seem easy to get accustomed to - personally I like the older individual shifter and brake levers.
 
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