Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
1 - 10 of 10 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,755 Posts
I like that the spool transducer is immune to the setup and use complications arising out of using air pressure as a proxy for suspension displacement. It should work equally well with air suspension that has valves or multiple chambers (DRCV, MRP Ramp Control Cartridge, etc.) and with coil springs, things that the Shockwiz can't do.

I have no idea how they present and analyze the data they get...and how usefull/accurate that is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,327 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I like that the spool transducer is immune to the setup and use complications arising out of using air pressure as a proxy for suspension displacement. It should work equally well with air suspension that has valves or multiple chambers (DRCV, MRP Ramp Control Cartridge, etc.) and with coil springs, things that the Shockwiz can't do.

I have no idea how they present and analyze the data they get...and how usefull/accurate that is.
I've seen their app and it seems lacking compared to the Shocwiz app, but it provides similar recommendations despite being a bit less intuitive. I haven't seen a full walkthrough of it though.

One feature I liked is that it provides 3 different pages to flip through for Rebound/Compression/Travel usage, which graph out where you were on all 3 categories (travel range, velocity vs distance, not sure what the compression graph is). I think that's real useful data that Shockwiz doesn't record.

I've heard about the support issues, but if the results are more useful, then I can deal with that. I also like that it simplifies setup, where the Shockwiz seems to be a bot more volatile when calibrating.

I just haven't seen one anywhere, so I'm a bit curious about it's durability and how accurate the spool is compared to the air pressure sensor Shockwiz uses.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,824 Posts
SMB Flow Alan was in my shop back in December for a full day (plus dinner and sleepover!) going over the unit with our guys. We went over all of the detail in detail...

We are the east coast MRP service center so working with MRP (and Ohlins and coil) is a huge step up from the ShockWiz. The Flow unit is super intuitive, allows you to 'turn off' HSC (for example) if you don't have that control, which is nice. At least emotionally...

There are some quirks, of course, and Alan is pretty-much a one-man show trying to get this thing rolling, which is rad. The unit isn't as fancy as the ShockWiz in terms of finishing or interface but it still gets the job done. And if you can't use ShockWiz, who cares about that at all.

We've been using the Flow unit but haven't really gotten enough use out of it to provide detail about the algorithm Alan is using in terms of what works for us but it's more raw data than the interpretation that ShockWiz provides.

Does that help?


mk
 
  • Like
Reactions: Adodero

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,327 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
SMB Flow Alan was in my shop back in December for a full day (plus dinner and sleepover!) going over the unit with our guys. We went over all of the detail in detail...

We are the east coast MRP service center so working with MRP (and Ohlins and coil) is a huge step up from the ShockWiz. The Flow unit is super intuitive, allows you to 'turn off' HSC (for example) if you don't have that control, which is nice. At least emotionally...

There are some quirks, of course, and Alan is pretty-much a one-man show trying to get this thing rolling, which is rad. The unit isn't as fancy as the ShockWiz in terms of finishing or interface but it still gets the job done. And if you can't use ShockWiz, who cares about that at all.

We've been using the Flow unit but haven't really gotten enough use out of it to provide detail about the algorithm Alan is using in terms of what works for us but it's more raw data than the interpretation that ShockWiz provides.

Does that help?

mk
Thanks for the info. The raw data is what interests me the most, it seems Shockwiz is more limited in that regard than the Flow is. I've used a Shockwiz with a fair amount of frequency (I owned one for a few months and experimented with it a lot), but was a bit frustrated by the lack of data it provided outside of abstract recommendations. Seems like the Flow does provide more, but I was curious how the recommendations compared. My feeling with the Shockwiz was that most suggestions resulted in a softer, slower responding bike than I prefer even with the alternate setup modes.

Have you found any issues with the mounting? The fork seems fairly straightforward, but I'd be using a DBAir IL on a Smuggler, the shock mounting seems a bit more iffy. Have you had any problems with it moving around?

The interface isn't as much of an issue for me, I hate doing any kind of interface design myself, as long as it's functional, that is all I really care about.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
274 Posts
SMB Flow Alan was in my shop back in December for a full day (plus dinner and sleepover!) going over the unit with our guys. We went over all of the detail in detail...

We are the east coast MRP service center so working with MRP (and Ohlins and coil) is a huge step up from the ShockWiz. The Flow unit is super intuitive, allows you to 'turn off' HSC (for example) if you don't have that control, which is nice. At least emotionally...

There are some quirks, of course, and Alan is pretty-much a one-man show trying to get this thing rolling, which is rad. The unit isn't as fancy as the ShockWiz in terms of finishing or interface but it still gets the job done. And if you can't use ShockWiz, who cares about that at all.

We've been using the Flow unit but haven't really gotten enough use out of it to provide detail about the algorithm Alan is using in terms of what works for us but it's more raw data than the interpretation that ShockWiz provides.

Does that help?

mk
I was hesitant to order one but your post gives me the confidence to order one. Just not a lot written about it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
398 Posts
I've been using a suss my bike flow for the past few months pretty extensively so I thought I'd chime in and give my thoughts. I've used it on: coil converted MRP ribbon, air sprung pike, friend's Lyrik. And a CC IL coil, IL air.

To sum it up:

Would I recommend it? yes. But with some serious caveats.

Who would benefit most from the SMB? Someone who has a 4 way adjustable shock/fork and has a pretty good understanding of spring rate and is open to experimentation. Those with coil suspension that don't have any other option. Puzzlers. Privateers who ride a range of terrain.

Who wouldn't benefit? Those with lower end or limited adjustable suspension. For example inline shocks with only LSR. Those who are generally happy with their suspension setup and ride the same terrain.

Initial impressions, build quality, installation:
I'm impressed with the accessories that come with it and it's pretty well thought out and designed- with the exception of the metal (aluminum?) mount that sits under the coil spring for attaching the device. It softens up after usage and gets fragile. And the inaccurately named "reset magnet" which is how you turn on the device and is easy to lose. It's essentially a pawn from a cheap travel chess set. Annoying thing is that if you buy an extra accessory pack it doesn't come with those two crucial items.

Turning it on was super annoying the first few times. Some tense moments in an afterwork group ride. I'm sitting there rubbing this thing with a magnet trying to turn her on for a few very long minutes while everyone waits. Now I know the magic spot and can turn it on in one swipe so it isn't that big of a deal now.

Given the design challenge of attaching it to most bike frames I believe SMB did a good job. If your shock tunnels through your frame (like a pole Evolink, newer SC bikes, Evil's, etc) I doubt it would work. There is a possibility that it won't work for your frame design, however I believe most forks would work no problem.

The device itself has more of a unrefined prototype look and feel. I wish it wasn't white because it attracted a lot of attention. Battery life is excellent. I've used it for a total of ~25-35 hours often times just leaving it running the whole ride. I've never changed the 2 AA batteries it came with. New it said I had ~3300 mAh, now it says I have ~2700 mAh.

Tuning with the device/app
Starting with your sag. The sag indicator is useful for coil shocks because it is difficult to measure compared to an air shock. I would love if SMB gave you your dynamic sag like shock wiz. Based off of your sag it'll tell you if your spring rate is harsh/firm/balanced/soft/etc. I'm in the camp that believes sag is an arbitrary number that only serves the purpose of being a starting reference point. Thus, I was disappointed that the SMB will not give you suggestions to adjust your spring rate or air volume. For the end user, even advanced users, I believe many of us get spring rate/spacers wrong and is the most important adjustments we need to base our tuning off of.

For example, when I switched back to the CC Air shock I pumped it up with 150psi (30% sag) and max volume spacers. Although it told me I was right down the center on all the settings after a few runs at the park- The preferred/better tune was removing all the volume spacers and increasing spring rate 13%. I had to figure that out on my own, and then the SMB further refined all the other settings.

So when did I get good results? On my coil shock in which I had already narrowed it down from a few different springs and had no control over the spring curve. On the CC IL coil you are given a virtually unlimited combination of adjustments, which results in much higher chances you'll end up with a crappy tune- which is exactly where I was at pre-smb. After a few runs I had made some big changes all at once: completely opening up HSR from fully closed, speeding up LSR, and completely slowing down HSC.

Id say that tune was a particularly challenging one given that I was running a really heavy spring rate for my weight, and running a coil on a completely linear frame design. I had been tinkering, bracketing, and had pre conceived notions (like keep HSR closed ala' vorsprung) for a while. For a coil shock it was also nice to know the exact amount of travel used. Without the SMB a pushed down bottom out bumper could mean excessive bottoming, or you only used ~80% of your travel.

I honestly believe I would've never arrived at the final settings it suggested. The results were amazing and it felt like a completely different bike. Tuning is much faster and a lot more thoughtless. I was riding much faster with much less crashing. I believe that prior to the SMB I had been distracted with how the bike felt and how I could tune it better- which led to crashes. The resulting tune on the shock is one that I'd run both in slow speed steep chunk and on fast smooth less steep flowy terrain.

It's made less of a difference on my forks because like I said it doesn't make any suggestions on spring rate/volume and generally speaking I never run compression on my fork. Nor do I have advanced HSC, HSR settings.

I did notice "compression creep" in which there is a point of diminishing returns. If you use it long enough it's always tell you to add 'little more' LSC or HSC until the ride is harsh. So once I'm in the ball park on the settings I pull off the SMB and fine tune LSC to preference. Because of this I have troubles trusting the SMB at times. Sadly the loop at the end of the cord broke off so it's out of commission.

The app itself is… not that great. It has graphs but it's hard to glean any useful information so I don't even bother looking at them. It would also be nice if it told you why it was suggesting changes. Starting the app/session, pausing, etc is something you have to learn and could be improved upon. On the plus side once you have it running it rarely messes up.

Anyway I'm babbling so I'll stop now. If there are any other questions I'd be happy to answer.
 

·
Underskilled
Joined
·
4,840 Posts
It used to have dynamic sag, however some customer recommended adding max travel used. The afformentioned oversized customer had not realised that adding max travel use would remove the dynamic sag.

Sorry about that!

He is allegedly working on the coding to put in full spring analysis. No ETA yet.

Ive found the tool useful and seriously irritating. Once you have worked out how to get around the bugs (never hit the back key, ever.) then it's been useful.

I'm pretty clued up with suspension, the whole recommendation for me, add a click Lsr. It made the bike better.

It was very useful for wifey. She can't speak engineer so could never say what was wrong. The device made me realise that even a ccdb could not adjust for her absent weight. Swapping to 0wt oil got me 3 dials in. I need a new poppet spring and valve.

The improvement on her riding was immense, probably assisted by getting the suspension working.
 
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top