Rigid: Reason #214
Padre said:
Suspension: Reason number #214
So a few of the socalers went on a little ride today.
Donkey, Hugh, etc...
3 local parks...8am-2pm...approx. 30 miles.
Granted, I haven't ridden longer than 2 hours since the Vision Quest last March....
but since my White Brothers fork blew up a second time, I had to run rigid today.
Reason #214 for using suspension: You can ride longer, w/ less pain, enjoying the trail, not cursing it.
Every downhill was almost a curse! The rigid fork seems to fight against me. That is frustrating. The rigid fork breaks up the feel of flow on the trail. It feels like driving an unladen cement truck w/ it's "quick handling.."
Priority 1: find good suspension fork.
Seacrest, out.
Donkey, Hugh, etc...
3 local parks...8am-2pm...approx. 30 miles.
Granted, I haven't ridden longer than 2 hours since the Vision Quest last March....
but since my White Brothers fork blew up a second time, I had to run rigid today.
Reason #214 for using suspension: You can ride longer, w/ less pain, enjoying the trail, not cursing it.
Every downhill was almost a curse! The rigid fork seems to fight against me. That is frustrating. The rigid fork breaks up the feel of flow on the trail. It feels like driving an unladen cement truck w/ it's "quick handling.."
Priority 1: find good suspension fork.
Seacrest, out.
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
the fox terra-logic forks are the shizznit. the design is totally sweet on a singlespeed. that's just my $0.02.
I (as well as Padre I bet) sure do wish they would make it in a 29er!peehead said:the fox terra-logic forks are the shizznit. the design is totally sweet on a singlespeed. that's just my $0.02.
Padre - I assume you are riding the KM rigid fork. I think that is part of the problem. I know the options are limited on sussy corrected 29er rigid forks, but the KM fork is just stiff, that is all there is to it. I have a ti fork and the difference between that and the KM fork is unreal. I am not suggesting a ti fork (especially for your size) I am just saying there has to be something out there less harsh than the KM fork that lets you keep all the benefits of rigid.
Please let me know if you find such a creation!
That fork in the Vulture ad looks like it could be done at 468mm...hmmmm
Lance
sorry, i didn't know that you kids rode 29ers. i guess rock shox is making the reba in 29" form, but i don't know if that company can be trusted...
No Worries -
I have heard about the 29er REBA, but I also have my reservations about RS quality control.
LP
I have heard about the 29er REBA, but I also have my reservations about RS quality control.
LP
not necessarily... i'm not "against" susp. and won't go in a holy war here but i see an issue of ridin style. you prefer susp adjusted ridin.. fine. but it's possible to ride anything, maybe not as fast (mtn biking is recreational, not against the clock for me), on rigid forks but then i use a very different geom. on such old ridin style: long stem absorbs front vibration. long chainstays as well. i can "float" over the bike and let it take the abuse for me. i have not ridden your trails though, mine are east coast style: slippery, steep, off camber rutted rocky dropped like. susp makes the front less precise... for ME.Padre said:So a few of the socalers went on a little ride today.
Donkey, Hugh, etc...
3 local parks...8am-2pm...approx. 30 miles.
Granted, I haven't ridden longer than 2 hours since the Vision Quest last March....
but since my White Brothers fork blew up a second time, I had to run rigid today.
Reason #214 for using suspension: You can ride longer, w/ less pain, enjoying the trail, not cursing it.
Every downhill was almost a curse! The rigid fork seems to fight against me. That is frustrating. The rigid fork breaks up the feel of flow on the trail. It feels like driving an unladen cement truck w/ it's "quick handling.."
Priority 1: find good suspension fork.
Seacrest, out.
I see where you are coming from...
but..
my stem is a 130mm Thomson...and my chainstays are 16.75".
for me..rigid makes me think about the clock.. wishing for the pain to end quickly..
Oh, how I wish Fox made a 29er fork..
Rok Sox quality is likely up there with WB, no?
but..
my stem is a 130mm Thomson...and my chainstays are 16.75".
for me..rigid makes me think about the clock.. wishing for the pain to end quickly..
Oh, how I wish Fox made a 29er fork..
Rok Sox quality is likely up there with WB, no?
colker1 said:not necessarily... i'm not "against" susp. and won't go in a holy war here but i see an issue of ridin style. you prefer susp adjusted ridin.. fine. but it's possible to ride anything, maybe not as fast (mtn biking is recreational, not against the clock for me), on rigid forks but then i use a very different geom. on such old ridin style: long stem absorbs front vibration. long chainstays as well. i can "float" over the bike and let it take the abuse for me. i have not ridden your trails though, mine are east coast style: slippery, steep, off camber rutted rocky dropped like. susp makes the front less precise... for ME.
We had the project manager and some of the design engineers for the new reba and pikes visit our shop for a clinic a couple weeks back. They explained several things they have done in the production of these forks to improve quality control over previous models. One example is they have re-engineered the tooling that cuts and press fits the stancions into crowns to make sure they are absolutely straight and parallell, apparently the old methods were good but sometimes less than perfect. When stancions were not quite parallel they would rub against one side of the bushings more than the other and cause premature wear. They had other examples- but the point is that I think they have thought out the construction of these forks under the new SRAM management to improve quality and become a suspension leader again.lanpope said:No Worries -
I have heard about the 29er REBA, but I also have my reservations about RS quality control.
LP
I'm not writing this because I'm a rockshox man, been running Marathon's for the past 3 years. But my most recent one has been having a crappy negative air chamber oil issue that wont quit (I have sent it back). Anyways, I am looking forward to something new and the light weight 32mm reba sounds pretty cool. Also the lock out allows some motion which I like, got to check out a demo fork- felt pretty sweet. I think it is good things to come from this if they prove to be durable.
L8
a rigid jihad?colker1 said:a holy war
rigihad?roadiegonebad said:a rigid jihad?
p.s. did anyone ever get stickers made up of your avatar?
sounds like a personal skill issue to me
Not sure what you need by the cement truck and quick handling. Cement trucks aren't known for quick handling. hardtails with rigid forks are, and that's a good thing, no? Again, back to the rider skills point. Are you saying the rider isn't up to the quick handling capabilities of the rigid bike? Maybe you're just so accustomed to riding suspension that your handling skills have deteriorated, or if you haven't ridden that much rigid, maybe you never developed the higher skill level required?
To me, riding with suspension reminds me of when I got to drive an M-60 tank in the Corps; while riding full rigid reminds me of driving my friend's Aston Martin on twisty PA roads.
I feel just the opposite. When I ride rigid, which I do most of the time, I feel more in tune with the trail, kinda like whitewater canoeing, where you have to steer and pick the best line and not just go bashing over everything. As for the rigid fork fighting against you, I think you got it backwards, it's You fighting against the Trail that's the problem. Learn to flow and Ride Light and you'll find you can go around some stuff and right over what you can't. Instead of fighting, be One With The Bike, ride loose, let the bike move as it needs to underneath you, use your arms and legs, don't sit down hard on the saddle on rough stuff.Padre said:So a few of the socalers went on a little ride today.
Donkey, Hugh, etc...
3 local parks...8am-2pm...approx. 30 miles.
Granted, I haven't ridden longer than 2 hours since the Vision Quest last March....
but since my White Brothers fork blew up a second time, I had to run rigid today.
Reason #214 for using suspension: You can ride longer, w/ less pain, enjoying the trail, not cursing it.
Every downhill was almost a curse! The rigid fork seems to fight against me. That is frustrating. The rigid fork breaks up the feel of flow on the trail. It feels like driving an unladen cement truck w/ it's "quick handling.."
Priority 1: find good suspension fork.
Seacrest, out.
Not sure what you need by the cement truck and quick handling. Cement trucks aren't known for quick handling. hardtails with rigid forks are, and that's a good thing, no? Again, back to the rider skills point. Are you saying the rider isn't up to the quick handling capabilities of the rigid bike? Maybe you're just so accustomed to riding suspension that your handling skills have deteriorated, or if you haven't ridden that much rigid, maybe you never developed the higher skill level required?
To me, riding with suspension reminds me of when I got to drive an M-60 tank in the Corps; while riding full rigid reminds me of driving my friend's Aston Martin on twisty PA roads.
as local SS wheel JAK showed me on Friday afternoon, a rigid fork and a DH tire up front give some fine suspension action, fine enough to paste me on some some sections and I was riding my FS rig.
but I have weak wrists and bum shoulders, which I use quite readily as an excuse for riding suspension forks on all my HT rigs and FS rigs.
just picked up a Minute 1:00 for the SS, yee hah!
but I have weak wrists and bum shoulders, which I use quite readily as an excuse for riding suspension forks on all my HT rigs and FS rigs.
just picked up a Minute 1:00 for the SS, yee hah!
Regardless of my approach, riding "light" is not an option.
Geared up, there is about 260lbs bouncing along.
"Flowing," "riding light," are just the things missing w/ the rigid.
It's simply the laws of physics.
There's only so far you can be "loose" after miles of stutter bumps and trail features.
My reference to the cement truck was deference to it's lack of suspension as it bounces along the highway giving back problems to all those who drive them.
I mentioned "quick handling" as a light-hearted jab to those who praise this elusive feature of the rigid set-up.
My skills are up to the task of the rigid, but my point was that my overall riding experience is greatly diminished by it...since all I end up thinking about is the jabbing pain and not enjoying the trail, the people, etc.
That said..I did choose to ride, opting for the rigid 29er SS instead of the geared Bullit... would I have chosen differently if I had the chance?
YES
Geared up, there is about 260lbs bouncing along.
"Flowing," "riding light," are just the things missing w/ the rigid.
It's simply the laws of physics.
There's only so far you can be "loose" after miles of stutter bumps and trail features.
My reference to the cement truck was deference to it's lack of suspension as it bounces along the highway giving back problems to all those who drive them.
I mentioned "quick handling" as a light-hearted jab to those who praise this elusive feature of the rigid set-up.
My skills are up to the task of the rigid, but my point was that my overall riding experience is greatly diminished by it...since all I end up thinking about is the jabbing pain and not enjoying the trail, the people, etc.
That said..I did choose to ride, opting for the rigid 29er SS instead of the geared Bullit... would I have chosen differently if I had the chance?
YES
bulC said:I feel just the opposite. When I ride rigid, which I do most of the time, I feel more in tune with the trail, kinda like whitewater canoeing, where you have to steer and pick the best line and not just go bashing over everything. As for the rigid fork fighting against you, I think you got it backwards, it's You fighting against the Trail that's the problem. Learn to flow and Ride Light and you'll find you can go around some stuff and right over what you can't. Instead of fighting, be One With The Bike, ride loose, let the bike move as it needs to underneath you, use your arms and legs, don't sit down hard on the saddle on rough stuff.
Not sure what you need by the cement truck and quick handling. Cement trucks aren't known for quick handling. hardtails with rigid forks are, and that's a good thing, no? Again, back to the rider skills point. Are you saying the rider isn't up to the quick handling capabilities of the rigid bike? Maybe you're just so accustomed to riding suspension that your handling skills have deteriorated, or if you haven't ridden that much rigid, maybe you never developed the higher skill level required?
any weight rider can "ride light" (or heavy)
by riding light, I mean using your body as a dynamic, vs static, connection to the bike, so that the bike is free to move and pivot over the terrain as needed. the larger the rider, the greater the difference between the sprung weight (the rider) and the unsprung weight (the bike) so it should actually be easier for the larger rider to let the relatively lighter bike do its thing. If you learn to sit on your bike like a jockey sits on a race horse, you're most of the way there.
Conversely, my 125 lb. ex could destroy any wheel in short order because she used to "ride heavy" by pretty much just sitting there and expecting good things to happen as the bike bashed its way down the trail. If she was still MTBing today, which she ain't because she porked up bigtime and now looks like a slightly younger version of her big fat mom, she'd be a good candidate for the mechanical crutch that is full suspension.
by riding light, I mean using your body as a dynamic, vs static, connection to the bike, so that the bike is free to move and pivot over the terrain as needed. the larger the rider, the greater the difference between the sprung weight (the rider) and the unsprung weight (the bike) so it should actually be easier for the larger rider to let the relatively lighter bike do its thing. If you learn to sit on your bike like a jockey sits on a race horse, you're most of the way there.
Conversely, my 125 lb. ex could destroy any wheel in short order because she used to "ride heavy" by pretty much just sitting there and expecting good things to happen as the bike bashed its way down the trail. If she was still MTBing today, which she ain't because she porked up bigtime and now looks like a slightly younger version of her big fat mom, she'd be a good candidate for the mechanical crutch that is full suspension.
Hmmmm....
.....seems like some pretty broad generalizations, especially when the trails that Padre is referring to are ones that you have never ridden. Just a thought. Being that I was on the ride, and walked many of the sections that he rode, I can attest to the fact that Padre is no slouch in the skills department.
You've obviously been riding for a while and have an in depth knowledge of the bicycle, how about sharing that experience in a positive light for a change.
.....seems like some pretty broad generalizations, especially when the trails that Padre is referring to are ones that you have never ridden. Just a thought. Being that I was on the ride, and walked many of the sections that he rode, I can attest to the fact that Padre is no slouch in the skills department.
You've obviously been riding for a while and have an in depth knowledge of the bicycle, how about sharing that experience in a positive light for a change.
bulC said:I feel just the opposite. When I ride rigid, which I do most of the time, I feel more in tune with the trail, kinda like whitewater canoeing, where you have to steer and pick the best line and not just go bashing over everything. As for the rigid fork fighting against you, I think you got it backwards, it's You fighting against the Trail that's the problem. Learn to flow and Ride Light and you'll find you can go around some stuff and right over what you can't. Instead of fighting, be One With The Bike, ride loose, let the bike move as it needs to underneath you, use your arms and legs, don't sit down hard on the saddle on rough stuff.
Not sure what you need by the cement truck and quick handling. Cement trucks aren't known for quick handling. hardtails with rigid forks are, and that's a good thing, no? Again, back to the rider skills point. Are you saying the rider isn't up to the quick handling capabilities of the rigid bike? Maybe you're just so accustomed to riding suspension that your handling skills have deteriorated, or if you haven't ridden that much rigid, maybe you never developed the higher skill level required?
To me, riding with suspension reminds me of when I got to drive an M-60 tank in the Corps; while riding full rigid reminds me of driving my friend's Aston Martin on twisty PA roads.
ho ho hobulC said:by riding light, I mean using your body as a dynamic, vs static, connection to the bike, so that the bike is free to move and pivot over the terrain as needed. the larger the rider, the greater the difference between the sprung weight (the rider) and the unsprung weight (the bike) so it should actually be easier for the larger rider to let the relatively lighter bike do its thing. If you learn to sit on your bike like a jockey sits on a race horse, you're most of the way there.
Conversely, my 125 lb. ex could destroy any wheel in short order because she used to "ride heavy" by pretty much just sitting there and expecting good things to happen as the bike bashed its way down the trail. If she was still MTBing today, which she ain't because she porked up bigtime and now looks like a slightly younger version of her big fat mom, she'd be a good candidate for the mechanical crutch that is full suspension.
mechanical crutch
I think you have a mental crutch. it's called attacking the strawman.
watch BulC destroy the strawman he so quaintly constructed!
I suppose Nathan Rennie needs to prove his World Cup DH skills by riding a fully rigid cruiser bike on World Cup DH courses?
c'mon, BulC. are you using air in your tires, you wimp?
do you use a chain? why not just push up the hill?
in fact, why not just leave the bike at home and have a REAL connection to the trail by walking it naked? or maybe bellycrawling it naked?
positive light?
Not here to be positive or negative, just stating facts as I see 'em. Not worried about hurting sensitive girlieman feelings, what I strive for is to be correct, not politically correct. Big difference.
Trails are trails. Unless yours is paved with fist sized gold nuggets, ain't different from trails I've ridden.donkey said:.....seems like some pretty broad generalizations, especially when the trails that Padre is referring to are ones that you have never ridden. Just a thought. Being that I was on the ride, and walked many of the sections that he rode, I can attest to the fact that Padre is no slouch in the skills department.
You've obviously been riding for a while and have an in depth knowledge of the bicycle, how about sharing that experience in a positive light for a change.
Not here to be positive or negative, just stating facts as I see 'em. Not worried about hurting sensitive girlieman feelings, what I strive for is to be correct, not politically correct. Big difference.
Directions....
....I-70 to I-15.......follow 15 into california, go west on 91 freeway, south on I-5. Give us a call at that point and we'll show you the particular trails in question. You shouldn't have a problem, after all, trails are trails.
Striving to be correct is good, but why not also strive to offer your criticism in a manner that might be heard, instead of ignored.
....I-70 to I-15.......follow 15 into california, go west on 91 freeway, south on I-5. Give us a call at that point and we'll show you the particular trails in question. You shouldn't have a problem, after all, trails are trails.
Striving to be correct is good, but why not also strive to offer your criticism in a manner that might be heard, instead of ignored.
bulC said:Trails are trails. Unless yours is paved with fist sized gold nuggets, ain't different from trails I've ridden.
Not here to be positive or negative, just stating facts as I see 'em. Not worried about hurting sensitive girlieman feelings, what I strive for is to be correct, not politically correct. Big difference.
sigh.I feel just the opposite. When I ride rigid, which I do most of the time, I feel more in tune with the trail, kinda like whitewater canoeing, where you have to steer and pick the best line and not just go bashing over everything. As for the rigid fork fighting against you, I think you got it backwards, it's You fighting against the Trail that's the problem. Learn to flow and Ride Light and you'll find you can go around some stuff and right over what you can't. Instead of fighting, be One With The Bike, ride loose, let the bike move as it needs to underneath you, use your arms and legs, don't sit down hard on the saddle on rough stuff.
Not sure what you need by the cement truck and quick handling. Cement trucks aren't known for quick handling. hardtails with rigid forks are, and that's a good thing, no? Again, back to the rider skills point. Are you saying the rider isn't up to the quick handling capabilities of the rigid bike? Maybe you're just so accustomed to riding suspension that your handling skills have deteriorated, or if you haven't ridden that much rigid, maybe you never developed the higher skill level required?
To me, riding with suspension reminds me of when I got to drive an M-60 tank in the Corps; while riding full rigid reminds me of driving my friend's Aston Martin on twisty PA roads.
can I ride 95% of the terrain i ride suspended with a rigid? check.
Is east coast riding a helluva lot different from colorado which is a lot different from arizona? check.
Can I ride faster, further, for a longer period of time with less fatigue and chance of injury when suspended? check.
Have I spent the majority of my mountain biking career riding rigid? check.
Do i frown on suspension? (and prefer it in many situations) hell no.
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