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mtbr Decade+
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I agree totally. One of the bike mags just reviewed one and they seemed impressed. I would worry that it wouldn't be pedaLable, but the reviewers said it pedalled ok. I ride a fair amount in the winter, definitely a bike I'd like in my arsenal.
 

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Muskoka
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Biggie said:
I agree totally. One of the bike mags just reviewed one and they seemed impressed. I would worry that it wouldn't be pedaLable, but the reviewers said it pedalled ok. I ride a fair amount in the winter, definitely a bike I'd like in my arsenal.
These bikes seem to be hugely popular on the Alaska forum. Meanwhile our LBS's are trying to survive by selling snowshoes and or xc skis...along side every other outfitter!! Does not compute imo. You would think by now ( these have been around for quite some time) at least one LBS in the snowbelt would have brought one in or built one up just to test the water!!
 

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Sweet Monkey Tuesday!
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I agree - we're in the perfect spot for a Pugsley or Fatbike and could see them getting pretty popular. I believe Surly is distributed up here by NRG and quite a few shops should be able to order one up (The Bike Shop in Gravenhurst and Cycle Solutions I know can get Surly stuff). But I can see why a shop wouldn't order one in to sit on the floor - they're a pretty pricey bike to build for a pretty niche market. Probably take some of us ordering them first to build a bit of popularity before a shop would take the risk on stocking them.

For my part, I'm eyeing up a set of SnowCat rims, should get me close to the Pugsley experience but without the expense or quirks of the fat tire bikes.
 

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Muskoka
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Biff Pedachenko said:
I agree - we're in the perfect spot for a Pugsley or Fatbike and could see them getting pretty popular. I believe Surly is distributed up here by NRG and quite a few shops should be able to order one up (The Bike Shop in Gravenhurst and Cycle Solutions I know can get Surly stuff). But I can see why a shop wouldn't order one in to sit on the floor - they're a pretty pricey bike to build for a pretty niche market. Probably take some of us ordering them first to build a bit of popularity before a shop would take the risk on stocking them.
It actually surprises me somewhat on how many of the riders that inhabit my small world in fact have a quiver full of relatively high end bikes, so I'm not convinced that price is the stumbling block. Many of these same riders bemoan the onset of winter and having to put the bikes away for 4 months, losing physical fitness, or stuck in doors riding a trainer etc etc. I'm guessing it has more to do with these bikes just not being on the radar for a lot of riders in our area. I have yet to even see one except in pics on MTBR. Having one sitting on a shop floor whereby one can get some hands-on experience, open the wallet and walk out with the bike on the spot would make all the difference. I doubt it would sit there very long. But fewer people will order an expensive bike or build without having the opportunity to even see or try the product!
Having said that, since I'm a skier I highly doubt that I would buy one myself! There is only so much time for recreation after all. But if I had the opportunity to try one and discovered that indeed it's as much fun as it looks it wouldn't take much for me to get out the wallet.
If I didn't ski and just moped around all winter dreaming of spring and getting back out on the trails I would be pro-active with The Bike Shop and have one brought in or built for sure.
 

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Sweet Monkey Tuesday!
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I guess it's a bit of vicious circle - no one orders them because shops don't stock any to check out - shops don't order them in because the don't realize any one's actually interested in them and worry about dead inventory.

If I ran a shop (or ruled the world) I'd order one in and pimp it right out - and while I wasn't riding it, it would be sitting front and centre in the showroom this time of year. I have no doubt if there were one sitting out for customers to demo you'd get some orders. Probably not a lot (because who would be crazy enough to go out and ride in the winter) but selling a couple bikes in February is still better than moaning about how I'm always broke.

But, up here anyways, that would mean a major attitude shift for some shop owners too. So many of them see January - April as vacation time and I've yet to understand that. Over the next two to three months is when I, and many others I know, are doing a complete rebuild on our bikes, replacing worn out parts, upgrading, etc. I probably spend as much on bikes now (in the "off" season when "no one buys anything") as I do the rest of the year. I'm a big enough geek that I've got the connections to get my stuff this time of year anyways (why yes, I'd be happy to open for ten minutes and make as much as I normally do on a quiet day in the summer, Biff) but for the average person up here doing the same as I do - until Matt opened if you needed parts in the winter it meant either a drive to the city where the bike shops were still open, or *shudder* mail order from the states. Why wouldn't you just open up for a few hours, two or three days a week? As long as you were consistent about it the masses would know when to find you.
 

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...from parts unknown
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Out of the way for you Muskoka area guys, but if anyone is in my area they are welcome to demo my Pugs (18"). Not much snow down here presently, but Lake Huron is in the backyard, and you could give it a spin on the sand. Please call ahead if interested, as I am open by chance or appointment.
Considering ordering another Pugs frame soon for stock, plus rims, tires, etc., along with a Surly Cross Check frame or two, and maybe a Surly Big Dummy.

http://www.wawanoshwatercraft.com
 

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Muskoka
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I thought Matt & Kristi of The Gravenhurst Bike Shop are open Thu,Fri, & Sat through the winter? He would be the logical guy since he's into winter trails already with the huskies and dogsled. I can see how up-front cash outlay could be a problem this time of year for what is a relatively new bike shop. Someone should ask him to rough & dirty price out a build.
 

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Muskoka
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
jelliott said:
Out of the way for you Muskoka area guys, but if anyone is in my area they are welcome to demo my Pugs (18"). Not much snow down here presently, but Lake Huron is in the backyard, and you could give it a spin on the sand. Please call ahead if interested, as I am open by chance or appointment.
Considering ordering another Pugs frame soon for stock, plus rims, tires, etc., along with a Surly Cross Check frame or two, and maybe a Surly Big Dummy.
http://www.wawanoshwatercraft.com
jelliot, what would a Pugsley complete retail for? I remember pics of yours from January.
Off topic but.. where you up here a few years back for our September Muskoka Wharf > Torrance Barrens group ride?
 

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...from parts unknown
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jelliot, what would a Pugsley complete retail for?
Its only sold as a frameset with fork. For 2010 I am listing it as $695. Complete bike price will vary depending upon which components you use, and how you set it up - ie. singlespeed, 'derailleured', Rohlhof, etc.
Although other tire and rim options are available (check the forums), Surly provides all you need in Pug specific parts. I list the Surly tires at $115, tubes at $15, and DH offset Large Marge rims at $145.
You will be somewhat restricted as to which crankset you can use as you need a crankset that takes a 100mm bottom bracket. Surly has their Mr. Whirly at $350 complete, or you can use an ISIS crankset with a 100mm DH BB (FSA or Truvativ, for eg.). Other cranks can be used, again check the Surly and Fat Bike forums. If going with a geared bike, you will need an E-type front derailleur. If using the Pugs fork, both hubs - front and rear - will be 135. 'Your front hub will be a rear hub.'
If you build your own wheels and have a Park TS-2 wheel stand, you will need to buy the TS-2 extensions.
If running the 3.7 Surly tires, a hanging hitch rack (or putting the bike inside the vehicle) is probably the simplest transportation option. Those big tires make using a roof or tray hitch rack somewhat problematical.

We were planning on the Barrens group ride, but couldn't make it that year. May be up your way in a couple of weeks or so. There is a dealer show in Vaughan from the 12 to the 14. Probably go there for a day, then head somewhere north of Barrie for some xc skiing.

http://www.wawanoshwatercraft.com
 

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Muskoka
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
jelliott said:
Its only sold as a frameset with fork. For 2010 I am listing it as $695. Complete bike price will vary depending upon which components you use, and how you set it up - ie. singlespeed, 'derailleured', Rohlhof, etc.
Although other tire and rim options are available (check the forums), Surly provides all you need in Pug specific parts. I list the Surly tires at $115, tubes at $15, and DH offset Large Marge rims at $145.
You will be somewhat restricted as to which crankset you can use as you need a crankset that takes a 100mm bottom bracket. Surly has their Mr. Whirly at $350 complete, or you can use an ISIS crankset with a 100mm DH BB (FSA or Truvativ, for eg.). Other cranks can be used, again check the Surly and Fat Bike forums. If going with a geared bike, you will need an E-type front derailleur. If using the Pugs fork, both hubs - front and rear - will be 135. 'Your front hub will be a rear hub.'
If you build your own wheels and have a Park TS-2 wheel stand, you will need to buy the TS-2 extensions.
If running the 3.7 Surly tires, a hanging hitch rack (or putting the bike inside the vehicle) is probably the simplest transportation option. Those big tires make using a roof or tray hitch rack somewhat problematical.

We were planning on the Barrens group ride, but couldn't make it that year. May be up your way in a couple of weeks or so. There is a dealer show in Vaughan from the 12 to the 14. Probably go there for a day, then head somewhere north of Barrie for some xc skiing.

http://www.wawanoshwatercraft.com
If I add that up and (assuming) a 1x9 setup to be best for snow it puts it somewhere just north of $2K, which to me is quite reasonable!
I would recommend Hardwood Hills or Horseshoe XC for skiing. Horseshoe is my personal favourite (-8
 

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Self-defeatist
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jelliott said:
Its only sold as a frameset with fork. For 2010 I am listing it as $695. Complete bike price will vary depending upon which components you use, and how you set it up - ie. singlespeed, 'derailleured', Rohlhof, etc.
Although other tire and rim options are available (check the forums), Surly provides all you need in Pug specific parts. I list the Surly tires at $115, tubes at $15, and DH offset Large Marge rims at $145.
You will be somewhat restricted as to which crankset you can use as you need a crankset that takes a 100mm bottom bracket. Surly has their Mr. Whirly at $350 complete, or you can use an ISIS crankset with a 100mm DH BB (FSA or Truvativ, for eg.). Other cranks can be used, again check the Surly and Fat Bike forums. If going with a geared bike, you will need an E-type front derailleur. If using the Pugs fork, both hubs - front and rear - will be 135. 'Your front hub will be a rear hub.'
If you build your own wheels and have a Park TS-2 wheel stand, you will need to buy the TS-2 extensions.
If running the 3.7 Surly tires, a hanging hitch rack (or putting the bike inside the vehicle) is probably the simplest transportation option. Those big tires make using a roof or tray hitch rack somewhat problematical.

We were planning on the Barrens group ride, but couldn't make it that year. May be up your way in a couple of weeks or so. There is a dealer show in Vaughan from the 12 to the 14. Probably go there for a day, then head somewhere north of Barrie for some xc skiing.

https://www.wawanoshwatercraft.com
FWIW, you don't need a truing stand to build wheels. I used a Surly 1x1 fork and an old spoke to build my 100mm wide rims (Large Marges are only 65mm). If you'd like the ability to use your TS-2, you will indeed need the extensions.

There are better deals than Surly when it comes to rims. Speedway cycles in Alaska was some sweet rims, and if you don't mind some DIY you can get massive rims from chopper cycle shops at very reasonable prices.

Surly's parts are great, and you can piece together any combo of the Mr. Whirly's to suit your needs, even different spiders. Surly's hubs are pretty nice, too, with really wide flanges.

I'm running an Alfine 8spd hub which priced similar to a full XT build at about a half-pound heavier. I built the hubs to 100mm ChoppersUS rims that I had to offset-drill for the Pugsley's unique dropouts. I had to shave the brake bosses to fit the rims in the frame, but I'm never going to run cantis, so it doesn't matter.

These bikes are beyond pedalable. You will notice some steering quirks, but speed is not an issue, you just need to adjust tire pressure to suit the surface. 18psi is seriously fast on the road while 8psi is seriously fast on endless baby-heads, get it? If you experience real northern winter, you will never regret a snow bike.

Here's a few build and ride pics. Any other Eastern Canadian Pug owners out there?





 

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I didn't use the extenders to build my front wheel, but still used the TS-2. You need the extenders if you are going to use the special adapter that came with the frame. Without the extenders (and with the adapter), you can't dish the wheel over far enough in the stand without hitting the base of the stand. I took the wheel out and just periodically checked the dish in the frame cause i didn't have a dish gauge either. You could just put the adapter on when you wanted to check the dish with a dish gauge (if you had one but no extenders).
I hope the wheel scientists don't cut my balls off! The wheel turned out fine, I might be off by 2mm on the dish, but I don't really care and don't feel the need to be surgical with the dish when I am flopping around at 7psi.
 

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...from parts unknown
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The weights of the different bikes are interesting to note, I find they appear to be very heavy due to the tires and such, but the actual build weights were surprisingly reasonable.
Another shot of my Pugs taken last winter. 34.25 pounds with flat pedals. Have replaced the big ring with a bash guard.

Bicycle tire Tire Wheel Bicycle wheel rim Bicycle frame


Ordered (by email) an 18" Pugs, along with some rims and tires for stock from the distributor last Thursday. Should know Monday as to availability, delivery, etc. If interested let me know.

http://www.wawanoshwatercraft.com
 

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BlackCanoeDog said:
If I add that up and (assuming) a 1x9 setup to be best for snow it puts it somewhere just north of $2K, which to me is quite reasonable!
I would recommend Hardwood Hills or Horseshoe XC for skiing. Horseshoe is my personal favourite (-8
Hey BCD:

I spent the last week in Winnipeg and stopped in at a shop:

http://www.olympiacycle.com/

Check out the BLOG entry for: Wednesday, December 23, 2009

ANYway, I was surprised about the number of -20 riders there and chatted briefly about the above Pugsley that sold between the 23 entry and the 31st.

$700 for a frameset there and about $1200 for a 'decent - his words, no details' 2x9 setup.
He also suggested an internal setup. which interests me more considering the WET COLD weather down here before Christmas.

Anyway Olympia had other Pugsleys on the floor or hanging from the ceiling, 1x1, Big dummy etc...

Stosh

PS. Seriously planning to take a bike rack to Winnipeg next year and spend my relative gifts on wheels instead of at the MLCC.
 

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Muskoka
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3,483 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
HubbaMan said:
Another interesting thread here:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=580906

The weights of the different bikes are interesting to note, I find they appear to be very heavy due to the tires and such, but the actual build weights were surprisingly reasonable.
Yes I saw that; some sweet bikes for sure. I disagree with the author on the Fatback aesthetics though, I like the look of its' curved top tube.
 

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Muskoka
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3,483 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Stosh (Canada) said:
Hey BCD:

I spent the last week in Winnipeg and stopped in at a shop:

http://www.olympiacycle.com/

Check out the BLOG entry for: Wednesday, December 23, 2009

ANYway, I was surprised about the number of -20 riders there and chatted briefly about the above Pugsley that sold between the 23 entry and the 31st.

$700 for a frameset there and about $1200 for a 'decent - his words, no details' 2x9 setup.
He also suggested an internal setup. which interests me more considering the WET COLD weather down here before Christmas.

Anyway Olympia had other Pugsleys on the floor or hanging from the ceiling, 1x1, Big dummy etc...

Stosh

PS. Seriously planning to take a bike rack to Winnipeg next year and spend my relative gifts on wheels instead of at the MLCC.
Yes, that's pretty much what I expected and I wouldn't consider that to be expensive.
I agree that the internal drive would be worth spending extra on...I really like CLONG's bike build shown above.
However as CLONG pointed out, you need a hitch&hitchmount rack or enough room in your vehicle to carry the bike inside, neither of which I have atm (I'm not seeing quick release wheels). I could also do quite a bit of trail riding just from home. However the skier in me gets very alarmed whenever I start drooling over these snow bikes!
 
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