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887 Posts
Thanks for that great reply. I was thinking of getting some for my mid 90s rigid mtb-turned-befendered commuter. I have since opted for some surly open bars that I had laying around for it.
surly ogre
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32 Posts
Thanks! I love this bike. I used to own a Fargo, but didn't enjoy the geometry as much. this Ogre fits me perfectly. I had it set up using a flat bar, but it was just not as comfortable. I wanted something for touring, commuting, and gravel grinding/bikepacking. This bike does all that with aplomb.
Plus, it's cheaper than a Fargo.
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182 Posts
Why does my Ogre "shudder" when I ride without holding the bars?
Here's my set up:
18 inch frame
Stock fork
Jones loop bars
Nice rack on front
Here's my set up:
18 inch frame
Stock fork
Jones loop bars
Nice rack on front
I bet it's the nice rack up front.
Joined
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153 Posts
Depending how big you are and seat height, you may just have too much weight off the front when you sit back.
You mean that vibrating thing you get when peddling sometimes? I've wondered about that on my cross check.
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182 Posts
Interesting, I'll have to try taking the rack off and see if it still does it. I'll also have to experiment with shifting my weight while its happening. I weigh 135, so not a lot of weight to throw around.
By "shudder" I mean the front wheel makes rapid left/right turns. Another word might be shimmy. The issue is not in the headset or the hub. Its also not a transfer of road vibration. Almost like there is not enough rake in the front fork/wheel/headtube angles. Think wobbly wheel on the grocery cart at the store. Bike has never been wrecked, banged, jumped, stolen, driven by a teenager, or gone over a cliff.
By "shudder" I mean the front wheel makes rapid left/right turns. Another word might be shimmy. The issue is not in the headset or the hub. Its also not a transfer of road vibration. Almost like there is not enough rake in the front fork/wheel/headtube angles. Think wobbly wheel on the grocery cart at the store. Bike has never been wrecked, banged, jumped, stolen, driven by a teenager, or gone over a cliff.
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452 Posts
Read this: Shimmy or Speed Wobble by Jobst Brandt
Then report back if you have any additional questions. My bike does it too. My Steamroller did it. I have reliably reproduced it on everything Surly except the LHT and Pacer (because I've never ridden a Pacer).
Then report back if you have any additional questions. My bike does it too. My Steamroller did it. I have reliably reproduced it on everything Surly except the LHT and Pacer (because I've never ridden a Pacer).
I know what you're talking about. I have had this problem. I think it is with the weight distribution over the front wheel? Are you running your ogre ss? I used to have tiny flat bars with a very short stem with brake levers only and the ogre fork. I now run surly open bars (twice as heavy) and a stem about 10 cm longer than the old one and with a salsa enabler fork. I no longer have problems with the wheel shaking. I also added about an inch to my headset spacer stack. I have no idea which of these upgrades contributed to no longer having the front wobble like it did. But truly I feel like it's weight distribution. Do you have anything on one side tha might be heavier than the other side of your handlebars? Maybe there isn't enough weight up front to hold everything steady? I know when.i ride with no hands I tend to lean pretty far back and if there is nothing to resist the torque the wheel is trying to put on the fork than it may cause the swaying?
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182 Posts
Good link Hunter006, I ran across that when I was googling the issue earlier. I'm enrolling in a physics course so I can understand all the dynamics at play
There is not any issue when my hands are on the bars, I can go very fast and the bike is very stable. I don't run SS, Jones loop bar, 80 mm stem. From Sheldon's article it sounds like the Ogre (and other Surly frames) are in a perfect storm sort of zone that they have this tendency.
There is not any issue when my hands are on the bars, I can go very fast and the bike is very stable. I don't run SS, Jones loop bar, 80 mm stem. From Sheldon's article it sounds like the Ogre (and other Surly frames) are in a perfect storm sort of zone that they have this tendency.
I never had an issue with my hands on the bars (preventing the wheel from shaking). But mine no longer shakes at all. Could it be that the Ogre is built for an 80 mm fork and the Salsa enabler fork is based around a 100 mm fork? Could that change the geometry enough to stop it wobbling?Good link Hunter006, I ran across that when I was googling the issue earlier. I'm enrolling in a physics course so I can understand all the dynamics at play
There is not any issue when my hands are on the bars, I can go very fast and the bike is very stable. I don't run SS, Jones loop bar, 80 mm stem. From Sheldon's article it sounds like the Ogre (and other Surly frames) are in a perfect storm sort of zone that they have this tendency.
Joined
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182 Posts
I see the rake on the Enabler is 45 mm, the rake on the Ogre fork is 43 mm. Could be just enough to solve the issue. Do you run a fat tire in the Enabler? I think the issue is more about rake and caster angle than anything.
If one didn't want a fat fork up front, it looks like the ECR might work, offset (rake) is 47 mm.
If one didn't want a fat fork up front, it looks like the ECR might work, offset (rake) is 47 mm.
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153 Posts
Still loving mine, the 710mm loop h-bar. Did 22mi or so of a trail today. Can't compare to the open bar but I like the sweep and the space it has to move around to vary position. Highly recommend the ESI grips, as being able to slide your hands up and down the extensions freely is a really good part of this bar.
Did you buy the ogre with the h bar? Reason I'm asking is because I was wondering how you decided on the 710. I emailed jones and he was extremely helpful, told me to call him when I get a chance and he will help me with the sizing. And I do plan on getting the esi grips, seem real good.
Joined
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153 Posts
No I did a frame up build, originally with drop bars and found that the frame geo didn't work for me with drops. I decided on the 710's because I'm big so the added width option is good for my shoulder width. Also the added inch or so on the extensions just makes for more options sliding hands up and down.
He's super helpful for sure. His advice to me was to adjust the stem size so that the "primary" position, which is riding up close to the cross bar, is the centered and normal position. Sliding back on the extensions should be in closer to let you sit up or for hanging your weight far back over the seat. I'm running a 70mm stem where I had a 100 on for the drops and I'm pretty happy with them in somewhat close like they are.
The ride I did today was a crushed rock surface canal trail, pretty light riding, but had a couple tricky transitions on it with a sharp drop down 20 feet or so on loose blue stone, followed by a sharp climb on the other side that were all rutted out. The Jones bars were really great for that and I wouldn't have liked it much on the drops.
My bars live a poseur life compared to many others, but they are very comfortable for the cruising about that I do.
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44 Posts
New Ogre frame delivered - what am I missing ?
New Ogre frame arrived, I open the box to find no BB cable guide fitted and badly scuffed up BB paint work.
I can reason I won't be looking underneath the BB so much and I don't have to look at it, but it is annoying to see on a brand new frame, more so because its my brand new frame.
Am I wrong to expect to see a fitted cable guide ?
New Ogre frame arrived, I open the box to find no BB cable guide fitted and badly scuffed up BB paint work.
I can reason I won't be looking underneath the BB so much and I don't have to look at it, but it is annoying to see on a brand new frame, more so because its my brand new frame.
Am I wrong to expect to see a fitted cable guide ?
Joined
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459 Posts
Yes you are, do you mean for the front & rear derailleur?
front goes down the top tube and then down, rear goes down the top tube and down the right hand side seat stay. bear in mind these run a full housing.
hope this helps
cheers
Steve
front goes down the top tube and then down, rear goes down the top tube and down the right hand side seat stay. bear in mind these run a full housing.
hope this helps
cheers
Steve
Joined
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546 Posts
You'll also find surface rust inside the downtube gusset, where the powder coating didn't reach. Both my Troll and Ogre came sloppy (with extremely scratched up BB tube) from the factory.
A few years ago, Surly frames were much nicer. They've become sloppy and Surly quality has really diminished, especially their customer service - nonexistent.
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