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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
...raw steel, 19t. Just Ok right now. It really needs a wider base and symmetrical design so you can flip flop it as it wears.

It is flat on one side and has a slight curved shape on the other. Maybe for weight savings? I like the look of the Endless product better right now. That said, I'm confident Surly will get it right.

Gratuitous Fully Monkey shot attached.

Sean
 

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Thanks for the pics. Come on Surly, get on with it! I understand that there are probably a lot of details lining up a manufacturer and specs and all of that, but geez, it's a cog. King sells its steel ones for like $50 now. Boone makes a nice but obviously $$$ ti one. Endless makes a good one, but it's al. Come on, let's get a reasonably priced steel one out there! S
 

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Recovering couch patato
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Last time I had contact with Surly about it, the plan was still to give the cog 9spd spacing, to allow for freak projects (and multiple cogs on one bike, canny :)
I don't think they'll make it any wider even if you ask nicely.

And if you go :
"But it might eat into my aluminum cassette body this way!"

Surly will reply :
"Alu-what? Why not steel? Steel can even hold a gearie cog as thin as it's teeth!"

You :
"Well, I want to save some weight on my bike, so I went aluminum on the body"

Surly :
"If you want a light bike we can understand that, but why then do you buy a 3mm thick stainless steel cog from us and plead to make it even wider?" Get an alu King Kog!

You :
I could, but King is so expensive

Surly :
"That's true. What did you pay extra to have a lighter hub with alu-whatsitsname body?"

You :
"..."

Surly :
"It was nice talking to you, but we're going for a ride now. Say hi to Chris from us."

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

Ever thought how cog that fit a Shimano spine in both directions actually contact the body with fewer splines? That alone would probably require to widen the cog by half or more.
 

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Here's to you Soupboy.

I recieved this from the person who gave soupboy the cog, he will remain un-named. He doesn't lurk the boards or read them, mostly because of the vast amount of mis-information that is posted. I still read them though, because I think the mis-information is just flat out comical.

Enjoy.

Soupboy,
I am the person who took this cog off of one of my personal bikes so that you could ride your new shiney King hubbed wheel. I was doing you a favor and you go online and bash on it and spew a bunch of un-informed and fairly wrong information. I think it is amusing that you think your opinion will change the design. The only reason I was willing to take the cog off of my bike was because the prototyping and testing phase has come and gone and the design has been finalized. I, in no way was actually asking for your opinion about our cog. I was doing you a favor, so you could ride your bike.

I will refrain from ripping you to shreds as much as Cloxxki did but there are still a few things that need to be straightened out.

1. They are offset to one side for multiple reasons. First it is so that, as Cloxxki said, they can be used to make franken-cassettes on cassette hubs and so you can run a 3 speed or 4 speed on singlespeed specific cassette hubs (depending on the particular hub) and use a commonly available 9 speed shifter and derailleur. Second, by offsetting the teeth to one side you can fine tune your chainline. Since every hub and crank on the market tends to be different it is a rather important aspect. As for flipping the cog over, it is not too hard to move a spacer or two from inside to outside or vice versa so you can flip it over and use the cog a second time. Besides, you will be able to buy two Surly cogs for the same price as 1 pricey King cog if they continue to produce them. We've heard a rumor they will no longer be producing them.

2. The base of the Surly cog (including the prototype shown on Soupboy's bike) has a wider base than the King cogs by almost a full millimeter. If you measure a King cog you will notice that the actual splines on the King are not as wide as the shoulder. Splines on King cogs are actually only 3mm wide. The Surly cog has 4.3mm wide splines, that extend full width of the cog. Need I say more or can you figure that one out for yourself?

3. The "slight curve" shape you think may be for weight savings is really so that the larger size cogs don't flex and therefore don't wear on your chain or accidentally throw your chain off when you're torquing up a hill. Not really a huge problem but on a 22tooth cog why take a chance? Weight savings was really the least of it. When has Surly ever put lightweight ahead of durable, strong, functional, sensible design?

I'd also like to address a few other things from the replies just to set the record straight and get the correct info out there which so infrequently happens on MTBR.

Cloxxki, good points. The cogs won't be stainless though. Stainless was good for the rings because you have more tooth engagement. For the cogs you need stronger material than stainless steel so we used a chro-moly steel, with a post machine heat treatment and plating for corrosion protection. The new cogs are proving significantly more durable than the previous track cogs which did not get the heat treatment after machining.

Also, the way the shimano freehub spline is designed you always have all 9 splines of the cog contacting all 9 splines on the cassette body. Only when you pedal backward will you have 8 point contact which shouldn't be a problem unless you made your freehub body into a fixed-hub body. And it doesn't matter if you flip the cog over, it is still the same. When you get your Surly cog, put it onto a freehub body and check it yourself. You'll see what I am talking about.

That should clear everything up.

And Soupboy if you haven't gotten the call yet, you might as well find out here that you should return the cog to GeneO asap. That's the last time I will ever go out of my way to help you out. I no longer care that you won't be able to ride that King hub you just paid tons of money for.
 

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JMKM said:
And Soupboy if you haven't gotten the call yet, you might as well find out here that you should return the cog to GeneO asap. That's the last time I will ever go out of my way to help you out. I no longer care that you won't be able to ride that King hub you just paid tons of money for.
Ouch...
 

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I don't think Soupboy was 'bashing' the cog... he gave an objective view of what he thought of the product.

Its more than what we could experience from the Surly page (they don't even list it). At least now I know what Surly has for a cog, and I'll most likely buy one. Up until this, there was no 'official' word on a when a cog of even 'if' one was becoming available.

The guy who loaned the cog, I think, is getting all wound up over nothing. Soupboy may have made assumptions about the cog, but without any real info, whats one to do?

It was nice that he clarified the design characteristics... and it was very nice that he loaned Soupboy the cog in the first place.

Cloxxki's commentary was spot on as well.

I like Surly's product and will continue to purchase it.

JMKM said:
I recieved this from the person who gave soupboy the cog, he will remain un-named. He doesn't lurk the boards or read them, mostly because of the vast amount of mis-information that is posted. I still read them though, because I think the mis-information is just flat out comical.

Enjoy.

Soupboy,
I am the person who took this cog off of one of my personal bikes so that you could ride your new shiney King hubbed wheel. I was doing you a favor and you go online and bash on it and spew a bunch of un-informed and fairly wrong information. I think it is amusing that you think your opinion will change the design. The only reason I was willing to take the cog off of my bike was because the prototyping and testing phase has come and gone and the design has been finalized. I, in no way was actually asking for your opinion about our cog. I was doing you a favor, so you could ride your bike.

I will refrain from ripping you to shreds as much as Cloxxki did but there are still a few things that need to be straightened out.

1. They are offset to one side for multiple reasons. First it is so that, as Cloxxki said, they can be used to make franken-cassettes on cassette hubs and so you can run a 3 speed or 4 speed on singlespeed specific cassette hubs (depending on the particular hub) and use a commonly available 9 speed shifter and derailleur. Second, by offsetting the teeth to one side you can fine tune your chainline. Since every hub and crank on the market tends to be different it is a rather important aspect. As for flipping the cog over, it is not too hard to move a spacer or two from inside to outside or vice versa so you can flip it over and use the cog a second time. Besides, you will be able to buy two Surly cogs for the same price as 1 pricey King cog if they continue to produce them. We've heard a rumor they will no longer be producing them.

2. The base of the Surly cog (including the prototype shown on Soupboy's bike) has a wider base than the King cogs by almost a full millimeter. If you measure a King cog you will notice that the actual splines on the King are not as wide as the shoulder. Splines on King cogs are actually only 3mm wide. The Surly cog has 4.3mm wide splines, that extend full width of the cog. Need I say more or can you figure that one out for yourself?

3. The "slight curve" shape you think may be for weight savings is really so that the larger size cogs don't flex and therefore don't wear on your chain or accidentally throw your chain off when you're torquing up a hill. Not really a huge problem but on a 22tooth cog why take a chance? Weight savings was really the least of it. When has Surly ever put lightweight ahead of durable, strong, functional, sensible design?

I'd also like to address a few other things from the replies just to set the record straight and get the correct info out there which so infrequently happens on MTBR.

Cloxxki, good points. The cogs won't be stainless though. Stainless was good for the rings because you have more tooth engagement. For the cogs you need stronger material than stainless steel so we used a chro-moly steel, with a post machine heat treatment and plating for corrosion protection. The new cogs are proving significantly more durable than the previous track cogs which did not get the heat treatment after machining.

Also, the way the shimano freehub spline is designed you always have all 9 splines of the cog contacting all 9 splines on the cassette body. Only when you pedal backward will you have 8 point contact which shouldn't be a problem unless you made your freehub body into a fixed-hub body. And it doesn't matter if you flip the cog over, it is still the same. When you get your Surly cog, put it onto a freehub body and check it yourself. You'll see what I am talking about.

That should clear everything up.

And Soupboy if you haven't gotten the call yet, you might as well find out here that you should return the cog to GeneO asap. That's the last time I will ever go out of my way to help you out. I no longer care that you won't be able to ride that King hub you just paid tons of money for.
 

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horse

Here's what Brother David Sunshine says today

"I'm going to be out and about, today, on a uni or bike. You might see me. If you're going to yell something at me, from your large automobile, don't yell,"*****!". It's overused. I'm yearning for some new material. Whatchu got??"

Thats good stuff. If someone (presumably connected with surly) loans you a prototype cog, you don't go out on the internet and trash it. Soupboy edited his post after he got his spanking.

Looks like a good cog to me, I'm getting one.
 

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Soupboy get out and Ride, Clear your head.

No insults about your mom, sister, or your weenie. The post wasn't about personal attacks, it was about providing informed information to the readers of this forum. I'm sorry you feel ashamed and insulted, but next week nobody will even remember this, they'll just be waiting for some dialed cogs.

Get out clear your head, Wirth opens tomorrow, River bottoms are Primo, rode them on the way to work and then home again.

Get out clear your head ride your bike and shake it off.
 

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Recovering couch patato
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Guys, please get over low post counts. Some people are shy, already have all the answers on bikes, or simply have better things to do that spread their opinion.
If I see low post counts are attacked, I wonder, would my rants be similarly dismissed if I did them on an (illegal) 2nd account with cherry post count?

Is it bad weather in the US or something? Lots of grumpy posts today. Some of you defiantely need a ride, it's okay to level that postcount for a day if it makes you feel better.

I think the only SS hub that'll take 3 or more such cogs would be the King, but it may eat a bit into the clayey body. I think frankencassettes belong on beater gearie cassette hubs, XT or something.
 

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Now it's a post count measuring contest..."My post count is W A Y bigger than yours..." Nice. And how very mature to start throwing out "your mother" insults... Its this the 29"er forum or did I somehow end up on the Romper Room site?

I didn't see any real bashing in the initial port so don't know what all the fuss is about...maybe because the guy loaned out his personal unit then got posted and critiqued prior to being released?

Looks like a nice cog that'll most likely be well worth whatever they charge.
 

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1x4+ Setups

The Surly cogs as stated are designed so they can be spaced for such setups. I have seen 1x2's on older Deore DX BMX hubs respaced to 135. It seems to work decently. You have to use an older Der. or something for the shifting, but the limit screws can be adjusted or replaced to get what you need. It is definitely not as smooth as 7,8, or 9 speed, but it is an extremely utilitarian setup for commuting, etc...

The surly cogs will have a full sweep of sizes available to do this. The user will have to use a 9-speed chain and maybe a guard on the front to keep the chain from dropping, although I got away with a 1x8 setup all winter long with some Sutour 8-speed thumbies, its just best to put a guard on the outside to keep the chain from dropping. It also helps to use a SS specific chainring like the now available Surly Stainless Steel Chainrings, or a non ramped ring like the Salsa's if you'd rather have aluminum. My chainring guard was a used 44tooth ring that I took to the disc sander. The 1x2's,3's, and 4's setup will shift slower, but that's because the tooth profile is deeper and there are no ramps for the chain like a cassette has. They will however last longer than a cassette...7,8, and especially 9-speed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I would...

... but it has been pissing on us all day. Probably no dirt for few days.

Take a deep breath yourself.

Sean

JMKM said:
Get out clear your head, Wirth opens tomorrow, River bottoms are Primo, rode them on the way to work and then home again.
 
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