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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all

Found a great deal on a new Rockshox Super Deluxe (Removed from new Santa Cruz) and was in the process of rebuilding it to replace the bearing eyelet with a standard version for my 2020 Trek Remedy 9.9 Frame.

Ive been using a Super Deluxe for awhile. From what I understand, the previous one was a 2017/2018 model from a Commencal Meta, while this one is a 2019/2020 from a Santa Cruz Nomad. Both shocks on the back say they are running the MM320 Tune, which to my understanding is Medium Comp/Rebound with 320lbs Lockout Force

Upon taking apart both, I've found that both shocks appear to have different shim assembly's? From what I understand the shim tunes for the Super Deluxe's are the same as what was on the Monarch. Ive been trying to learn more about how changing a shim stack can influence the shocks feel. Ive measured the shims as best I can.

My question is to the much more knowledgeable suspension whiz's out there (Dougal, JohnnyC7 and anyone else) what would be the likely characteristic of each stack? From my understanding, the small spacer shims don't have much of an influence on the over all feel, though what else would be the influence aside from diameter and thickness? Also of curiosity is the metal plate spacer is of a different diameter in the new version compared to the old.

Love to hear anyones thoughts on what would be the differences, i.e. more compression, less rebound, etc etc or which one would better suit the Remedy's suspension. (Understand its likely not that simple, but am keen to learn more in-depth info about the interactions between each part)

Older shock on the top, new one on the bottom.

IMG_1067.jpg

IMG_1068.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Edit: Giving the pic quality has been reduced here are the shim measurements, going left to right as shown in the pics:

Top - Old Shock
--------------------
Compression Side
--------------------
Plate
Spacer x 3
18x0.15
18x0.15
20x0.12
20x0.12
22x0.12
22x0.15
22x0.15
---------------------
PISTON
---------------------
Rebound Side
---------------------
20x0.15
Ring Shim
16x0.10 (Clamp Shim?)
19x0.15
19x0.15
19x0.15
19x0.15
Spacer x7
Metal Plate? 19mm Diameter
19x0.11
Ring Shim
16x0.11 (Clamp Shim?)
19x0.11
Spacer
Piston Bolt
-----------------------------

New Shock - Bottom
--------------------
Compression Side
--------------------
Plate
18x0.15
18x0.15
20x0.11
20x0.11
22x0.12
22x0.15
22x0.15
---------------------
PISTON
---------------------
Rebound Side
---------------------
20x0.15
Ring Shim
16x0.12 (Clamp Shim?)
19x0.15
17x0.15
17x0.20
18x0.15
18x0.20
Spacer x4
Metal Plate? 22mm Diameter
Ring Shim
19x0.15 (Clamp Shim?)
22x0.20
Spacer x4
Piston Bolt
------------------
 

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2020 is way softer than 2018, but still slow on rebound. Can be too slow on a Capra.
You should know you bike better yourself. Do you need less rebound? Is it too harsh?
 

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How confident are you on the shim measurements? Shims tend to come in 0.10mm, 0.15mm, and 0.20mm.

My calipers often read 0.09 and 0.11, but a quick reset gets them back to 0.10. If that's the case your comp stack is the same.

On the rebound side, you have a face shim touching the piston. How thick is the ring shim after that? That's creating a 2 stage rebound. Should react very quickly with very little rebound, and then firm up deeper in the stroke. That's pretty weird though. A thicker ring means less lsr I believe.

Considering your face shim is only 0.15, it's not really a 2 stage though. That's going to fly full open quicky and hit the next shim. I'm curious if someone can explain why they did that! Monarchs were simple preload stacks.

The metal plates are check valves. No real tuning for check valves.
 

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Yeah I have often seen variations between shocks marked as the same tune, I don't really know what the reason is but it doesn't make a drastic change to the damping

They are likely all 0.1, .15 and .2 mm shims, digital calipers usually have an accuracy of +/- 0.02mm

The shims marked "clamp shim" are the nested shims for the preload sandwich, so the thickness of this shim subtracted from the ring shim will tell you how much preload you have. Check the thickness of those as that is one of the biggest factors in the tune

The actual clamp shims are the spacer shims, changing the diameter of those would affect the damping as well as it alters the fulcrum the shims are pivoting around

I imagine the larger check plate allows more force on the shims so they will open quicker as the shock changes direction

The end result of both tunes will be pretty close once everything is considered, the rebound tunes will have a firm linear ish curve but with the adjuster open will tend slightly towards progressive. In my experience most people suit a softer linear stack on the rebound side, but you will need extra 9mm shims and a bit of trial and error to get it right

Is the compression face of the new piston any different? The coil shocks have had a slight change but I don't think I've seen a difference in the air shocks yet
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
2020 is way softer than 2018, but still slow on rebound. Can be too slow on a Capra.
You should know you bike better yourself. Do you need less rebound? Is it too harsh?
I found that overall the shock worked well, but did want to reduce the Rebound slightly, as I felt it was over damped after 1-2 clicks, so if the newer one has a softer stack this may help that. Compression felt fine, though shockwiz would often say to reduce LSC compression dampening, despite it being wound off all the way. If anything id like to reduce the compression stack in the RCT base valve, as putting more than 1 click on the adjuster makes the shock feel rather harsh.

One Pivot
On the rebound side, you have a face shim touching the piston. How thick is the ring shim after that? That's creating a 2 stage rebound. Should react very quickly with very little rebound, and then firm up deeper in the stroke. That's pretty weird though. A thicker ring means less lsr I believe.

Considering your face shim is only 0.15, it's not really a 2 stage though. That's going to fly full open quicky and hit the next shim. I'm curious if someone can explain why they did that! Monarchs were simple preload stacks.
Im confident in the diameters but wouldn't be surprised if the thickness measurements are off slightly as I don't have the best callipers. I did think they would be 0.1,0.15,0.2 etc so ill round them to the nearest number.

I measured the thickness of the ring shim after the piston (confirming the rim shim is the one with the pen underneath it?) as well as the one after the check valve. The one on the rebound piston measures 19x0.25 and the one after the check plate is 22x0.2

IMG_1072.jpg

IMG_1073.jpg

JohnnyC7
The shims marked "clamp shim" are the nested shims for the preload sandwich, so the thickness of this shim subtracted from the ring shim will tell you how much preload you have. Check the thickness of those as that is one of the biggest factors in the tune

The actual clamp shims are the spacer shims, changing the diameter of those would affect the damping as well as it alters the fulcrum the shims are pivoting around
Is the compression face of the new piston any different? The coil shocks have had a slight change but I don't think I've seen a difference in the air shocks yet
Thanks for the clarification! I measured the shims that where sounding the nested shims, and got the results shown above (for the new shock). So going by that, is the preload for the first stage on the rebound side (nearest the piston) 0.25-0.1 giving a preload of 0.15, and the check plate side being 0.2-0.15 giving a preload of 0.05? Assuming in my likely over simplistic terms, that the higher the preload, the stiffer the stack over all?

Another question revolved around the oil. Overall I was happy with the compression side of the shock, but found myself wanting a lighter rebound tune. The shocks both had Rockshox 7WT shock fluid in them (rebadged Maxima Racing Shock Fluid), with RS now going to the 7WT plush fluid. I was going to use this and noticed that the Plush fluid appears significantly thicker, with a [email protected] of 30.4 for the Plush fluid, and 20.8 for the RS Oil. Would there be much effect on the overall performance going for one or the other? I note [email protected] is roughly the same at 7.3.

As far as I can tell, no difference to the pistons.

Compression Side, Old Top - New Bottom

IMG_1074.jpg

Rebound Side, Old Top - New Bottom

IMG_1075.jpg

Thanks for the replies everyone!
 

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Hi Guys,

I just stripped a Super Deluxe RCT with an LL1380 tune. Its a 2018 so basic shimming style is more like the older one you have above with some shim qty changes. I need to up the rebound damping as I'm on the heavier side at 105kg and am running 320psi to get 30% sag on my Evil Following. Anymore than 30% on an Evil feels harsh due to the progressive linkage. That much air is pushing back quite hard and still slightly too fast when up at full slow on the adjuster. It's ride able but I'd like to slow it down a little. Oil inside was redish in colour but I might just stick to the recommended 7WT oil in the manual and see how it goes before I mess with that. Ill try and change my rebound stacks to match what you have for your medium tune above. One of the seeling points for the newer version was a more noticeable adjustment for rebound so that might account for the shimming difference between new and old. Hoping my shim stack pic will help someone and if anyone can shed some light on the shim stack breakdown that would be appreciated. I am mainly interested in which are the HSR and LSR shims. I am assuming the shims closest to the piston are LSR. While I've rebuilt many shocks I haven't spent much time on custom shim tuning as I could always buy a RS tune kit until now.
I can also confirm that shims from Monarch Plus can be used as they have same ID. Piston is also identical. Feel free to forward or repost this to help someone out.

22nd of May. Changed photo as I found 2 shims were actually 0.12 instead of 0.10. All shims measured with a micrometer now. Shock serial number begines with 14T8 so was made week 14 of 2018.
 

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Never taken apart a super deluxe, is the plate near the end of the main shaft the check valve for the rebound adjuster? Or is it for some other purpose?
 

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Never taken apart a super deluxe, is the plate near the end of the main shaft the check valve for the rebound adjuster? Or is it for some other purpose?
I think it is definitely a check valve but I haven't gone any further to see which port on the shaft is connected to the adjuster. I can tell you its not on the Monarch plus shocks. My experience with custom shimming is pretty limited and I've mostly just swapped out for tune kits of replaced a shim or 2. I did read somewhere about a new check valve for rebound on the Super Deluxe but can't find it now. Didn't take much notice of it at the time. It could have been on Pinkbike. I am going to put this back together with medium rebound tune same as shim stack at start of this thread.

This was the article but not as informative as i remember. Check valve is supposed to help with transition from comp to rebound.

https://enduro-mtb.com/en/first-ride-review-rockshox-super-deluxe-2019/
 
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