Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
1 - 20 of 56 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
224 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Quick edit to show off the beautiful trails at the Summit Ridge Freeride Park at Black Diamond.

"Thanks to the folks at Real Life Church and their vision to share their land with the mtb community, we are re-building the area known as the Black Diamond jumps."
-Dennis Little

Re-building is in full swing. Come out and ride and join in on rebuilding something great at Black Diamond. Keep and eye out on the Black Diamond Freeride Park FACEBOOK page for updates and check out the discussion board for some great backstory on the design and construction of the new A-line.

[URL=http://vimeo.com/8417542]Summit Ridge Freeride Park at Black Diamond from Walter Yi on Vimeo.

***Summit Ridge Freeride Park at Black Diamond***
[/URL]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,729 Posts
Took a quick XC spin out there yesterday and sailed down the berm line. What a tasty little run, fantastic work going on out there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,746 Posts
So much good stuff going on! :)

Any room in there for a, "Whoops" style trail like outside Bend, OR? Maybe a little mix of the berm trail and some "B-Line" tables along the way for the gap less among us?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
224 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Behind the scenes email exchange

Check the facebook page for more updates and behind the scene discussions.(long read)

Everyone has a reaction to the new jump line, and while overwhelmingly positive, many folks have no exposure to this type of trail and understandably have questions. This email exchange between Rick Heinz and the trail crew leader can provide all of our friends with some valuable backstory;
Bryan,
I got hit up by a number of folks on Saturday about A-line. So, I want to sync up with you on a couple of things.

1. gap versus table top: I think you guys stated that the advantage of a gap is a less skilled rider is less likely to take the jump with a gap? Where if you table top it a less skilled rider may try it? Therefore even though the gap looks less safe, fewer unskilled guys will try it and less guys get hurt??

2. How many more jumps do you envision on A-line?

Hi Rick,
Yes, your summary of the gap versus table top debate is right on. There are a couple of additional points to add here as well. Logistically, filling in the larger jumps would require a prohibitive amount of dirt, and bridging the gaps would encourage misuse that would be destructive to the trail and create additional hazards. The "invisible" safety features of this trail are really what make it so unique and great. I put a great deal of time into the design and layout of the trail. The beginning of the trail is deliberately a small-scale exercise in the skills required to properly execute the bigger jumps, and until one masters that section it is not even physically possible to go for the next set of jumps. There are multiple turn-out lines between sections for riders to quickly return to the hike-up and continue developing those skills. I have enlisted the expertise of some jumpers more experienced than myself to help with the larger jumps. It was critical to get the shape, spacing and flow just right so that the speed and trajectory of each jump sets the rider up for a controlled takeoff on the next. Judging by the activity on the trail the last few days we seem to have hit our mark. To my knowledge alone there have been about a dozen riders age 10 to 40 absolutely raving about this trail and a slew of kids slowly picking it apart one section at a time as planned. Eager riders who find themselves not quite up to the challenge will find the first half of B-line to be an excellent spot to develop the necessary turning and "pumping" skills.
Furthermore, I would add that the tops of the landings have been shaped so that (in most cases) coming up a bit short will quickly scrub the riders speed and keep the wheels down rather than necessarily sending them cartwheeling over the bars. Thanks to the careful layout of the trail, coming up more than a rear wheel short is nearly impossible.
I have plans for one more large jump in the clearing where the trail currently ends followed by a reworking of the 3 or 4 remnant jumps at the end of the trail. A couple of the older jumps were in fact quite hazardous and are known to have broken many a bike and body. I am committed to upgrading that section to high standards of our new construction and maintaining a thoughtfully designed trail where willing riders can comfortably develop their skills and train their bodies for the often unpredictable rigors of downhill racing and Whistler vacations. We have everyone's fun and safety in mind!
 

·
Moist and Delicious
Joined
·
555 Posts
What Borneo said.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
141 Posts
Great video.
I am just over in Auburn, I need to get out there some day.
Hit the trails, I do not think I could do those jumps :D

Wish I could have got out there last week when the weather was better, as I am off until the 4th, but came down with a bad cold last Tuesday.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,746 Posts
Confused...

"and bridging the gaps would encourage misuse that would be destructive to the trail and create additional hazards."

This statement makes absolutely no sense to me. Please explain the logic. :confused:

Seems to go against anything I'ver ever read and experienced though it sounds as this is known fact.
I'd hate to think all those riding areas out there that are decking their gaps are making them unsafe in doing so...

Just hoping to get to the bottom of this logic. No stirring up any pots...

Love the work that's going on out there. :thumbsup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
224 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
And that's when the fight started....jk! :D (where's my picture of the dead horse!);) Yes yes, I had the same question since I'm not the best at drops and jumps and I would feel a bit safer having them topped when learning a new line. After a brief discussion with the trail builders and riding part of the trail, I must say I was pleased to see everyone including myself picking apart the features from top to bottom exactly as designed.

I'm not as experienced in trail building as many here so I'll let people more qualified answer them. :p
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
776 Posts
If the gap versus no gap was intended as a valid argument than how come almost all the jump lines at major bike parks such as WMBP are tables and not gaps? Your logic does not stand when compared against that barometer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
logic? apples vs oranges

re-read slower, perhaps. "... filling in the larger jumps would require a prohibitive amount of dirt..."
(i.e.: filling in the gaps would take too much extra dirt excavation). they also want minimal impact overall, as few craters or "borrow pits" around as possible.
Bottom Line: the design concept is great there, for the scale of the project.(IMHO)
:madman:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,746 Posts
Sorry Mark.

That has nothing to do with "encouraging misuse, being destructive, and creating additional hazards".

I agree, adding more dirt isn't necessarily a good thing by creating the borrow pits. That's not the point here.

It's what is "really" safer....

Decking over the gaps would introduce, "man made structures" or what ever the legal liability pros call non-dirt features. Perhaps that's the "real" reason?

Again, not dissing the activities out there, just questioning the logic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
yes, Bob, safer IS better :yesnod: for sure but its VERY safe out there, already, by design. i checked it out late Sunday, that 1 line has great starter jumps for learners or hardtail riders. Anyway ppl are gonna crash no matter what, sometimes badly; lose front teeth, break collarbones, crack wrists & arms - hazard of the sport!
hey I gotta go back to the food table now & wash some of this beer down -
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!
 

·
I5Troll
Joined
·
1,343 Posts
Thanks all for the awesome work out there! Now if I could only get my arse down there to check it out!

I've done a lot of digging into risk management and the gap vs. no gap issue. There's no simple answer. (+)s and (-)s on both sides. But I am sold on 1 thing:

As the jumps get bigger (higher speed / bigger air)... the more gaps ye see, the less bloodshed thar'll be.

Why? Keeps less experienced jumpers off the line until appropriate skills and confidence are built. Overall fewer riders coupled with higher experience level on the line means less probability of an accident. Also means less maintenance which means lower probability of potholes and ruts which means less risk. And there are more reasons to leave gaps.

The downside? Fewer riders get to enjoy the line, more difficult for riders to build the skills needed to hit bigger jumps, gaps just look bad to a land manager or risk manager, risk of a fatal crash into the tranny wall (see below). And there are more reasons not to have gaps.

How many times have you seen a rider crash casing a gap vs. spilling on the tranny? I've witnessed 1 incident on the 'Nade rainbow bridge that could have been a fatal crash into the tranny wall had the bridge not been there. Rider wanted big air so was pedaling furiously before the lip, but his drivetrain locked up. He panicked and tried to brake. Ended up crashing on the lip and rolling & tumbling over the rainbow bridge. However, what would he have done if it was still a gap? Would the crash have happened at all?

At Colonnade the city clearly said "no gaps". At Duthie, the county is still undecided. So far we're building everything with the expectation that we may have to come back and fill the gaps. For now, the plan is for no gaps on the easier stuff. As the jumps get more difficult, we'll increse the "gapness". E.g. bridge tables on HLC line and the big step-down on Semper Dirticus, rollable doubles and long caseable case-guards on the mini-DH, and short case-guard on the monolith. No short wooden case guards a la Post Canyon!







 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,547 Posts
Of course, no matter how well designed it is, you cannot protect yourself from people like this:

God, I love that video :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Just wanted to chime in on a couple of quick points.

First of all, to the Summit Ridge builders; really nice job out there you guys. The design and quality of the work, not to mention the amount of progress made in the short amount of time is all commendable! I had to ride it 2 days straight this week I was so impressed.

The thinking about using gaps to establish the necessary level of skill makes sense to me also, we've used that philosophy in a few places on Semper Dirticus, aka the Dirt Corps line at Duthie.

The case-able landing designs Mike illustrated above has really proved to be an excellent design choice we've adopted with the gaps at Duthie. There's a couple of reasons for them. They allow you to build the gap long enough so that it isn't necessary to always clear the jump, say the first time you hit it, or perhaps on a day when the dirt is rolling slow. We all make mistakes and this takes the edge off and makes it safer. Plus, it means the folks who are close in terms of skill to making the gap can try it out and see for themselves (a lot people are capable of bigger gaps, but haven't mentally reached the point where they can be confident and just hit it).

The "Ladder Bridge Case Guard" design that Westra posted is a particular favorite for bigger gaps for a couple of reasons. It keeps the "lip rollers" off the jump, it takes less material than a full bridge or a full dirt table, and it still gives the rider a sense of hitting the gap. These structures can be made very quickly and easily, like the one on Semper D right before the Wall Ride as an example.

Anyway, just wanted to pass my experience along and congratulate the Black Diamond crew. Keep up the good work fellas! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,746 Posts
Thanks Mike. That's the feedback at least I was looking for. Still doesn't answer the original question but helps.

Maverick would approve.
 
1 - 20 of 56 Posts
Top