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No problem - disc brake hub (axle or quick release - both will do), external gear mech, OEM2 plate, 4 bolts disc brake rotor and speedbone - that's your config.
 

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Mine is not a DW Sultan but I have a Sultan sporting a Rohloff. No problems at all. I'm using the Rohloff chain tensioner but any will do. Just disconnect the shock and check the chain length and tensioner combo through the full potential travel when you put it together. Great ride before Rohloffing it, even better after.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I am tempted...lets see, Utah powder trip or Rohloff....hmmm.

The other thing is I was planning on a Stans Flow 36H. Since the spokes are shorter on the Rohloff hub 32h, it seems it would be stronger than the standard 32h..?
 

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That's funny, I did the Rohloff first and the powder trip to Alta the following year. Both good calls and about the same cost. But the Rohloff will last longer. Mine is laced to a Stan's Arch and has been as strong as any wheel I've ever built. I think the short spokes make it bulletproof. Rohloff does have specific lacing instructions so read the manual.
I'm also running a bit lower gear ratio than they recommend to make up for the 29" wheel. many miles no issues. Get it, you won't regret it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
serhij said:
No problem - disc brake hub (axle or quick release - both will do), external gear mech, OEM2 plate, 4 bolts disc brake rotor and speedbone - that's your config.
Just so there is not more mis-information on this. After finally getting my frame in hand I realized the DW Sultan uses Post Mount. The Speedbone will NOT work. Apparently the Monkey Bones adapter for Post Mounts will NOT work as well. Only option is to use the ugly ass torque arm with the whoopty looking mount or start modding.

My Fault... :madman:
 

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RipRoar said:
Just so there is not more mis-information on this. After finally getting my frame in hand I realized the DW Sultan uses Post Mount. The Speedbone will NOT work. Apparently the Monkey Bones adapter for Post Mounts will NOT work as well. Only option is to use the ugly ass torque arm with the whoopty looking mount or start modding.

My Fault... :madman:
A bit of update. Speedhub will work with any non DW-Link Turner frame. and will NOT work with DW-link bikes (no matter - Sultan, Flux or Spot). The problem is not the brake mount - there are PM-ISO2000 adapters that can solve this problem with ease. The thing is, that left dropout doesn't have enough flat surface to face OEM/OEM2 plate (welding).

Sorry for my previous misleading post. This time I've tried to fit my Rohloff on my new DW-Link 5-Spot.

serhij
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
serhij said:
A bit of update. Speedhub will work with any non DW-Link Turner frame. and will NOT work with DW-link bikes (no matter - Sultan, Flux or Spot). The problem is not the brake mount - there are PM-ISO2000 adapters that can solve this problem with ease. The thing is, that left dropout doesn't have enough flat surface to face OEM/OEM2 plate (welding).

Sorry for my previous misleading post. This time I've tried to fit my Rohloff on my new DW-Link 5-Spot.
serhij
The weld that is keeping the axle plate from sitting flush is just ever so slightly in the way, at least on my frame. I think you could remove a small amount of material from axle plate and get it to sit flush as well as still retain the 5 mounting screws. In worst case you could remove a small amount of material from the base of the weld. I dont think it would compromise the integrity of the post in that area if you look closely but an opinion from the builders would be nice.

Im curious on the PM - ISO2000. How are you thinking that would work? The PM to IS will get the SpeedBone on but how will you get the caliper on unless its an IS caliper? another IS - PM?

It seems like you would need a PM to IS + SpeedBone + IS to PM adapter....

this is my approx estimate of material that would need to be removed from the frame or axle plate..




 

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About PM-IS2000 adapter - A2Z has such product, one of friends use it and everything seems to work great.
Now the weld issue - it's not enough to remove this small amount of material - OEM2 plate has to point up in brake mount direction. And this means almost all the welds are comming in the way...
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
serhij said:
About PM-IS2000 adapter - A2Z has such product, one of friends use it and everything seems to work great.
Now the weld issue - it's not enough to remove this small amount of material - OEM2 plate has to point up in brake mount direction. And this means almost all the welds are comming in the way...
Ya, I looked at the A2Z products, I dont see any PM to IS back To Post Mount. Ill post again once I actually DO it.
 

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Rohloff Sultan
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Current Rohloff to 2009 Sultan (DW) frame build

I'm doing a Rohloff OEM2 to 2009 Sultan (DW) frame build...and had to file away part of the post mount and axle plate as previously mentioned in this thread, as the drop-out area isn't flat. I will have to use the long torque arm, which isn't ideal...but I only realised this after I bought the frame. That said, CycleMonkey is (hopefully) working on some kind of "TurnerBone"...not sure of how it will work because of the post mount position, but have signed up for one when ready. I've attached a few photo's of the filing job! I'm moving the Rohloff over from my Commencal VIP Meta 6. I've run it for 2 years....and hope to never go back to 20th century gears.

Hope to get the build completed by end of May...
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ive been playing with different ideas on this and am in the process of making a "Turner Bone" myself. I just hate the torque arm and the mounting is horrible (using hose clamps!). Alternative perhaps would be to make a cleaner torque arm mount attachment.

As you can see on your (and mine) 2009 DW uses a 2 piece, drop out and Post Mount which actually fits a little better, or at least you need to remove less material.

The 2010 DW uses a single piece dropout/post mount like this:



Niel at Cycle Monkey had one in the shop and after taking a closer look it appears that more material would need to be removed compared to the 2009 version.

Either way, material need to be removed from the frame. You could also trim the edge of the axle plate so you dont have to remove as much material from the frame.

Another idea was to use a .5mm spacer (smaller than the axle plate) between the axle plate and dropout, but then your spacing is off and some stress added to the rear triangle. Maybe DT could comment on that. Another caveat of the spacer is then the axle housing is only sitting half way into the dropout but you could also run a spacer in there as well.

Anyhow, no clean solution available currently and there is no PM-IS adapter that can solve this problem with ease. Ill post some pics of the T-Bone when Im closer. I am making a wood one first for mock-up.
 

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Rohloff Sultan
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26 May 2010 - Update, added a few more pic's of a dry fit of the Rohloff axle plate and torque arm positioning. I've done a few drawings to see if/how a replacement Speedbone (Tbone) could be made to fit. Looks like the angle of the axle plate isn't going to be close enough to the post mount, so it'll be quite long and dropping the wheel in might/will be problematic. So, it looks like (unless Rohloff offers something?) I'll be stuck with the torque arm. Some advice, anyone thinking of doing a Rohloff geared bike, make sure you DON'T buy a vertical post mount frame.
 

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Either that, or Rohloff should update their archaic design to be compatible with the evolution of cycling, not have the world conform to something designed years ago, somewhat well, but highly "clunky" and lagging behind competitors doing what they promised years ago, and that's evolve the box enough to be used in an mtb and be lighter. At this rate, the competitors will beat Rohloff, while they continue to think they have the best thing going and the rest of the world needs to speak German.

PS- I'd simply grind the edge of that plate down.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I feel you pain madav13. I made a few different prototypes of the speedbone that possibly could work with this frame. They were all very kludgey and would have to be bulky because of the inherit loads of the design. As you pointed out the only way would be to have the bone attachment behind the dropout and very low. This would create some weird loading on the rear post mount. The other thing I didnt like about the modified speedbone is the shiftter cables would most likely need to be routed below the stay, I wanted the looped behind the dropout.

I decided a more elegant torque arm would be better than a kludgey looking speedbone. The super long Rohloff torque arm is really designed for thinner more lightweight stays so it is longer to reduce the loading to the stay. The quick disconnect Rohloff provides is a joke and you attach it with hose clamps, I just couldn't do it.

On Turners triangle I feel the load would be better off closer to the dropout. Below is my first shot at it. Im working on the second now. My goal is to get the clamp chunk smaller and more streamline. I will leave a little more meat on the torque arm as well (between the bolts). I was even thinking about just welding it as one piece. Then I could lop off one of the bolt mounts and rotate the whole axle plate forward so its cleaner looking.

If anyone has some thoughts on making that clamp better please chime in...

madav13,I noticed you ground some of the axle plate down, Im guessing because you could not get it to sit flush in the dropout. I had the same problem. The way that dropout is cast creates a little ramp up toward the top of the post mount so you end up filing at and angle. If using a file you need to really be sure to cut in towards the post and keep it very flat to remove the material that is creating the ramp.
 

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future

I think that in the forthcoming change to 142 x 12 the industry will leave the Rohloff in the past. I have talked to people that know a lot about the working of Rohloff the company and it does not sound like they will change anything. Isn't Shimano making a 10+ system for higher torque users yet?

DT
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
turnerbikes said:
I have talked to people that know a lot about the working of Rohloff the company and it does not sound like they will change anything. Isn't Shimano making a 10+ system for higher torque users yet?
DT
I think you/they are correct, doesn't seem like any new innovations have been coming out of those guys. Shimano Alfine 11speed is supposed to be out sometime soon, some good info in the IGH forum. If I didnt already own this thing I would just revert back to derailleur setup but I want to give it shot.
 

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Rohloff Sultan
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RipRoar said:
I think you/they are correct, doesn't seem like any new innovations have been coming out of those guys. Shimano Alfine 11speed is supposed to be out sometime soon, some good info in the IGH forum. If I didnt already own this thing I would just revert back to derailleur setup but I want to give it shot.
Not really complaining here...invested in the Speedhub 2 years ago, and have been very happy with it, especially when you hear the crunching of conventional gears, shifter springs not working when frozen up in cold weather (should I go on?). Anyway, look forward to getting the Sultan built and running. Will update with pic's of the build when complete...and more importantly a few actions shots. It's warming up here in the UK...and the days are getting longer...so Summer is around the corner (when it stops raining!).
 

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If anyone has some thoughts on making that clamp better please chime in...
That looks very nice. The only thing I can suggest would be to make the clamp out of one piece that was open at the bottom to slide on the stay from above and then use a spacer to fill in the gap when bolting the torque arm in place. You could eliminate the upper bolt and thin out the top part of your clamp.

Other than welding a tab to the stay to attach the torque arm for a permanent solution, I think you've got the answer to a much better looking setup than the Rohloff torque arm.
 
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