[whoismestas]

I currently have a '13 Ogre and am thinking about replacing it with something a little more enjoyable on the trail. I'd like something with fatter tires and have been looking at the Krampus for awhile but the new Instigator 2.0 has caught my eye as well. What are your opinions on this?

 

[seat_boy]

I have a Krampus, but with the weather I haven't really spent enough time on it to qualify how it rides. OTOH, I used to have a KM (same geo as your Ogre), and with the rear wheel slammed all the way forward, I found it more flickable than most other 29ers I've had.

 

[Ace.]

Don't think theres a right or wrong way to answer the question, much depends on where you ride and what you ride track wise.

To me flickable is lighter, easier to pick the bike up and skip over stuff. My 2011 KM is built light and SS at the moment, haven't weighed it but reckon under 25lbs. Can be exciting on fast tracks as it's easy to pick up and throw about, it's exciting because you can feel the frame give and twang back when pushing hard.

Of the Krampus and Instigator, i reckon the Krampus would be the more fun all rounder.
The Instigator would be up for serious Downhill racing abuse, it might (haven't ridden one) feel a bit dead on easy tracks as it's not being pushed to it's limits.
The Krampus is a lighter frame, be a bit more zingy in it's ride and be more exciting on less demanding tracks.

Weight wise i don't think theres much between the 2, wheel and tyre weight.
I like heavy wheels for racing as they just carry momentum and steamroller rocks. I tried a super light DH Hardtail, and like others found it hard to control when really pushing it, a bit of flex in the fork, bit of flex in the wheels and frame and all of a sudden you have a bike that when pushed hard won't hold a line over rough stuff, and when you jump things the combined dynamic flex and recoil can ping you off the track and into a tree/hedge/rock filled ditch (i know this)

For abuse and racing go Instigator.
For light abuse and trail go Krampus.

I have raced a few DH races on the rigid KM, get the rear wheel fully forward, pick my lines, try not to smash through things, work the light flickable nature of the KM. I set up using DH bars and short stem, flat pedals, and the biggest tyres i could fit (had to hand) and comments from others...... we kinda agreed it was like a big bmx
You could experiment with the Ogre, wider bars, shorter stem, fatter tyres, lighter or heavier wheels, mix things up a bit.

 

[seat_boy]

Ace brings up a good point: the Ogre uses a heavier tubeset than the KM, which may affect the feeling on the trail. Though when it came out, Surly claimed the Krampus was their beefiest frame yet (pre-Instigator v2)

 

[Ace.]

Hadn't thought about that seat_boy :thumbsup::thumbsup:

The KM is a fairly light steel general purpose frame.
The Ogre is built around a KM but beefed up for touring/carrying loads, trailers. So loaded up it will ride nice, unloaded and a light build it will be slightly stiffer in ride quality than a similar build KM
The Krampus, could be compared to a KM but in an oversized package 29+ and aimed more at chucking about.
Of course the new KM is on it's way as well, which is beefed up over the current KM.

The old KM is kinda like a swiss army knife, can do a lot, but best get the right tool for long term use on a certain job Surly have gone that way with variations more suited to Niche areas of cycling and what people want from their bike.

The new KM will be slightly stiffer than my last Gen one, while it opens up more options for axle and headset choice (future proof) the new KM might not be as much fun, although frame weights won't be that far apart, the larger head tube will stiffen up the front, it might lose some of the comfort and playfull nature of the old KM, but it will have an edge if your a larger (heavy person) or push the the old KM harder than it was designed for.

I might be over thinking things now

I did price up a Krampus front wheel, which just fits a KM fork, that with a 2.4 tyre out back and almost a Krampus. I think (you would have to check) the orge fork will take a Krampus front wheel as well.

 

[vikb]

I currently have a '13 Ogre and am thinking about replacing it with something a little more enjoyable on the trail. I'd like something with fatter tires and have been looking at the Krampus for awhile but the new Instigator 2.0 has caught my eye as well. What are your opinions on this?

The Krampus is playful and agile for a bike with big tires. If you compare it to a 19lbs 29er with 2.1" rubber it's not that flickable...compared to a fat bike it's a Porche 911....so it just depends what your frame of reference is.

One issue you will have on any bike with big tires is that as they spin up to speed they generate a lot of stability.

 

[Mtnbikeradio]

Yeah, the Krampus is a little beefy. But, for the price it's a great option. It's a great bike that's pretty agile (see vikb's comment re comparing..) for having the bigger wheels. If it is an issue after awhile, you can always switch out to some 27.5 x 3ish tires once a few options come out soon. Trax fatty 27.5 x 3.25's on whatever rims are available now or very soon. WTB had some on that Rocky Mountain at Sea Otter. All that said, +1 on the Krampus.

 

[vaultbrad]

Why not a 1x1? The littler wheels will spin up faster and I find that 26" wheels just invite that playful sort of riding. 26" isn't obsolete.

 

[seat_boy]

You got it. After riding my Krampus some today, I'm lately thinking the 26+ might be a great middle ground.

Why not a 1x1? The littler wheels will spin up faster and I find that 26" wheels just invite that playful sort of riding. 26" isn't obsolete.

 

[jnroyal]

I love my Krampus but flickable is not a word I would use to describe it. It's more battleship-stable than speedboat-agile, especially at speed. I haven't had the pleasure of trying the new Instigator but if you're looking for an agile semi-fat bike it has to be a better choice.

 

[Molasses]

I will have some feedback on the Instigator soon...

Just bought a frame set and will be building it up. My hope is that this will be a tough bike that will have some flickable tendencies… I am coming off of an XC hard tail and will be building it up with the parts from my old ride. Not the Instigator that is being marketed but I hope it will meet my needs- I will share build specs, impressions and angles soon...

 

[abaris]

I agree with the this :

Don't think theres a right or wrong way to answer the question, much depends on where you ride and what you ride track wise.

But to me this:

To me flickable is lighter, easier to pick the bike up and skip over stuff.

is only part of the definition of flickable.

To me in addition to lighter, the bike also has to have lighter/quicker steering response to be flickable. This is usually traced to the amount of mechanical trail built into the bike which in turn is a related to the tire radius, the head angle and the fork offset.

The 29+ that Surly markets has forks with relatively small offsets compared to competitors (47mm vs [email protected]) and relatively slack HA (69.5 for Krumpus) which translates to SLOW steering and slow speed awkwardness.

As far as Krumpus vs Instigator, they both will "feel" about the same although the Instigator will probably feel more CONTROLLABLE at higher downhill speeds. Going uphill they'll both be wandering as the fork flops (being that both have trail numbers in the mid 90's mm.)

But that's just my opinion (based on engineering.)

 

[vikb]

The 29+ that Surly markets has forks with relatively small offsets compared to competitors (47mm vs [email protected]) and relatively slack HA (69.5 for Krumpus) which translates to SLOW steering and slow speed awkwardness.

But that's just my opinion (based on engineering.)

After 3yrs on a Krampus I can tell you ^^^^ this is not true. :nono:

Surly nailed the geo on this bike making it fun and nimble to ride despite the big tires.

Buy hey...don't let reality get in the way of a good theory...

 

[hamsterspam]

the karate monkey is a pretty fun bike,not at all hard to bunny hop and manual through the chunder,the frame is well described as lively,and slapping a 29x3 inch tire up front tames the bar shock quite a bit..
but that said,the krampus is a crapload of fun to ride too,if your going downhill its hard to beat and so long as the climbs arent too long it climbs like its never letting go of the ground...also the krampus will just plain roll right over stuff like nothing else...

for "flickable" i would give the edge to the monkey...

 

[l'oiseau]

Does this help?

 

[abaris]

After 3yrs on a Krampus I can tell you ^^^^ this is not true. :nono:

Surly nailed the geo on this bike making it fun and nimble to ride despite the big tires.

Buy hey...don't let reality get in the way of a good theory...

So when I rode the Krumpus and then rode a Trek Stache 29+, I found the Stache to be what I would describe as flickable and nimble. I was not impressed with the Krumpus at all as far as handling goes; Not nimble at all. Just slow and heavy, which helps going down hill.


So while vikb might love his Krumpus, I don't and would not spend a dime on one.

 

[l'oiseau]

But hey... if I was going to buy a Surly based on what I thought would be 'flickable' - I'm not sure what that means for sure, but I have my own idea - it would be an Instigator. Not sure how they ride, have never even seen one in the flesh.

Now having a stable of two Monkeys, one rigid and one with a 100mm fork, I can say they feel a bit different. Stems are a bit different too and one thing that I think makes a bit of difference is the chips I'm using. The thru axle chip on the suspended one puts the rear wheel more forward than the skewer axle chip that is on the rigid bike. Also due to size differences between the two riders the suspended bike has the bars up higher.

What's all that mean? To me, riding both bikes, I can pop my Monkey (the suspended bike with the rear wheel more forward and the bars up higher) way easier. It might just be the way it is set up fits my body better, it might be those other little things. I think it would be even more flick-able if I had more some riser bars and maybe a 10mm shorter stem, but I might not feel good for xc and long rides.

I can tell you with great certainty that the rigid bike feels much more nimble and maybe even a bit nervous on certain terrain. The front end feels lower and less slack than the suspended bike. On paper it's not much different, but you can feel it. On smooth track like that video above it feels like I can ride faster, I don't know that I actually can, it just feels it - suspension numbs things out a bit and changes your perception. If I set the rigid bike (which is my wifes) up like the video above with some riser bars and a different stem I'm sure it would feel much more ready to take flight while compromising it's cruising qualities.

 

[vikb]

So when I rode the Krumpus and then rode a Trek Stache 29+, I found the Stache to be what I would describe as flickable and nimble. I was not impressed with the Krumpus at all as far as handling goes; Not nimble at all. Just slow and heavy, which helps going down hill.

 

[vikb]

 

[croatiansensation]

After 3yrs on a Krampus I can tell you ^^^^ this is not true. :nono:

Surly nailed the geo on this bike making it fun and nimble to ride despite the big tires.

Buy hey...don't let reality get in the way of a good theory...

X2 . . . I wouldn't say my Krampus is "flickable", but it handles very well, both up and down. Not a hint of wandering or flopping in corners when climbing, and super composed when descending techie stuff. My Instigator v1.0 with a 130mm fork, on the other hand, that was a flopping, wandering pig on climbs.