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We have the Stupid Motorist Law, why not a Stupid Hiker Law?

Charge them for their rescue when they are hiking in the heat of the day and get overwhelmed.

Only if the rescue is heat related.
 

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The .05 percent
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Not sure what the rescue is like in summer, but if you need rescue in the backcountry during the winter and you dont have your backcountry permit, you foot the bill.
 

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Black and Sticky
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Quite a few years ago in Colorado they had a deal where you could buy a fishing or hunting license and if you needed to be extracted/rescued in some way you didn’t have to pay. Otherwise you did. I used to fish in Colorado occasionally back in the 80’s and always bought a license and I seem to remember something like that. I don’t remember the exact details but it was in effect some kind of insurance policy. I would be up for something like that in AZ. Maybe we have that and I just don’t know about it. Never bought a fishing license here.

My wife has done half a dozen or more R2R hikes. Never had a problem except once. She made it out of the canyon but just barely. Went to the doctor and her blood work was all messed up. Anyway, the next time she went I asked her to check into some type of insurance policy that pays if she had to be helicoptered out. Of course, I was reminded yet again that I could mind my own business.

Anyway, I’m not particularly in favor of a stupid hiker law. But I would be very much in favor of some type of insurance policy that would cover costs if a rescue was needed and then charge those that need rescue but don’t have insurance. I’d be curious to find out if there is such a thing.

Bob
 

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I rescued a hiker on a yosemite backpacking trip last week----was a leader in the boy scouts and they left him to his own (17 of them) He was a total mess and it took me 24 hours to get him to a place with help (little yosemite) the ranger said he would not be charged for the extraction by chopper---seems in CA if varies by location and some level of decision making---note I pay $18 a year---yes a year for insurance for extraction thru garmin.
 

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I rescued a hiker on a yosemite backpacking trip last week----was a leader in the boy scouts and they left him to his own (17 of them) He was a total mess and it took me 24 hours to get him to a place with help (little yosemite) the ranger said he would not be charged for the extraction by chopper---seems in CA if varies by location and some level of decision making---note I pay $18 a year---yes a year for insurance for extraction thru garmin.
17 of them and you got to spend 24 hours of your time saving him. seems ass backwards of the scouts. good for your though.
 

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passed out in your garden
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They left him???

with you, or literally left him in the bush?



Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
 

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They left him and I found him sitting on the trail and near delirious-----so much for the buddy system and being prepared----pretty mind boggling--they had agreed to meet 8 miles down the trail but this guy had no chance alone to do that and then they were not there that night-----so they teach these boys if someone gets in trouble just leave him---nice
 

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what am i missing here?

did they have a plan to come back for him?
if so, when? in your opinion would he have made it that long?
if not...then they essentially left him to die, am i correct?

perhaps i'm missing the point of your "meet 8 mis down the trail", i'm Polish, i'm slow. was that where some plan of attack would happen to help this guy? or were they hoping he'd actually get there...somehow.

good for you on helping this dude, sounds like you saved his life.
mega-props!
 

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Quite a few years ago in Colorado they had a deal where you could buy a fishing or hunting license and if you needed to be extracted/rescued in some way you didn't have to pay. Otherwise you did. I used to fish in Colorado occasionally back in the 80's and always bought a license and I seem to remember something like that. I don't remember the exact details but it was in effect some kind of insurance policy. I would be up for something like that in AZ. Maybe we have that and I just don't know about it. Never bought a fishing license here.

My wife has done half a dozen or more R2R hikes. Never had a problem except once. She made it out of the canyon but just barely. Went to the doctor and her blood work was all messed up. Anyway, the next time she went I asked her to check into some type of insurance policy that pays if she had to be helicoptered out. Of course, I was reminded yet again that I could mind my own business.

Anyway, I'm not particularly in favor of a stupid hiker law. But I would be very much in favor of some type of insurance policy that would cover costs if a rescue was needed and then charge those that need rescue but don't have insurance. I'd be curious to find out if there is such a thing.

Bob
Hunting and fishing licenses in CO have a fee attached that goes into the search and Rescue general fund. It's not insurance per say, rather, the sale of such licenses pay for all rescue operations. CO generally doesn't charge for rescue operations, though once you're handed off to an ambulance (be it ground or air), you could (likely will) be charged. That being said, at some point in the future, there are expenses associated with S and R as well as land conversation that the fees attached to hunting and fishing licenses may no longer cover without raising the fees significantly, so may very well be the case that other user groups, including Mtn bikers, may have to pay something in a form similar to license fees.
 

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I get a little more philosophical/big-picture when this topic comes up. I understand the reaction of "why should I pay for some idiot's rescue", but don't feel that putting a negative incentive on risk taking is beneficial for society as a whole. We live in an era where people are increasingly turning to the virtual world or urban pursuits, and risk aversion (if not outright risk avoidance) is prioritized.

I believe anything we can do to encourage people to get out and experience the big scary world should be supported. Yes, there's going to be a few idiots doing stuff they should know better than to do, but I'm willing to accept that as part of the bargain. I don't know what the actual numbers are, but I find it hard to believe S&R costs to society are substantial enough (compared to all the other sh*t we spend tax dollars on) for it to be an issue. Seems like there's lower hanging fruit to pick if you're a fiscal conservative.
 

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I didn't realize just how prevalent stupid hikers are til I moved to within 100 yards of the trailhead up Piestewa Peak. I'm rarely home on the weekends in the summer, but if I am I can count on at least one midday hiker rescue involving upwards of 6 vehicles and over a dozen first responders. I'd prefer to see my tax dollars go for more trails rather than keeping people that climb peaks in 110 degree heat without sufficient water in the gene pool.
 

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I didn't realize just how prevalent stupid hikers are til I moved to within 100 yards of the trailhead up Piestewa Peak. I'm rarely home on the weekends in the summer, but if I am I can count on at least one midday hiker rescue involving upwards of 6 vehicles and over a dozen first responders. I'd prefer to see my tax dollars go for more trails rather than keeping people that climb peaks in 110 degree heat without sufficient water in the gene pool.
It is easy to say it always someone with too little water, but that is not always the case. I was personally involved in a rescue where heat and lack of water were not the primary factors despite it being a hot day when the rescue occurred. Long story that got new press (much of wrong) and won't go into it here, but lest just say sometimes even with good planning stuff happens.
 

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NPS helos are free for us, we are their bosses in a way. The minute they land and hand you off to a private's ambulance services is when you need the lube...
 

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It is easy to say it always someone with too little water, but that is not always the case. I was personally involved in a rescue where heat and lack of water were not the primary factors despite it being a hot day when the rescue occurred. Long story that got new press (much of wrong) and won't go into it here, but lest just say sometimes even with good planning stuff happens.
Sure things happen, but the odds of that thing being potentially fatal are going to go way up when the conditions are already adverse. I could probably survive an hour spin in the heat just fine if nothing goes wrong, but throw a turned ankle, a flat tire, or a broken chain into the mix and a PITA is now something else entirely.

This is purely observational and only based on what I've witnessed since May, but I've learned that PMP and Piestewa Peak are plenty busy in teh summer pre-dawn and after dark, but I have never seen a rescue happen during those hours. Contrast that with the six or so rescues I have witnessed during the heat of the day despite there being relatively few people on the mountain. We all have different levels of risk but if you roll the dice and things go wrong, that's on you. Seems to me a "Stupid Hiker" law with signs making this clear at the trail heads could save both lives and dollars.
 

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Huffy Rider
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I am married to a Search & Rescue Deputy and he gets asked this question all the time. The answer is quite simple, in states that have a "stupid hiker" law or some sort of fine, penalty or bill to pay for being rescued the body recovery is VERY high. In plain english, PEOPLE WOULD RATHER DIE then pay to be rescued.
 

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Huffy Rider
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They singed up for the job and get payed for it. It's not like they're volunteers.
Actually, most are volunteers. The big exception are the guys contracted to do the Phx area mountain rescues and the DPS helicopters. My husband has had to tell many people, sorry, you aren't getting rescued tonight because it is too dangerous to send people in to get you. Hunker down, we will come when we can. He also doesn't use helo's unless it's absolutely necessary. The time, money and energy of the volunteers is what makes the SAR program in AZ work so great.
 
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