[campykid]

I found snow/ice bike nirvana! I was tempted to use sheet metal screws or hex screws to stud my endos, but decided to check with a local auto tire dealership. I told him I was looking for studs and he came out with boxes of different sized studs. I chose the 11mm stud with aluminum carrier and tungsten tip. They sell for $60 for a box of 1000. He sold me 400 for $20. I drilled a full thickness 1/8" hole in the center of each lateral lug (total of 100), applied some epoxy to the stud and pushed it through (inside to outside of tire). My thumb was pretty sore but it didn't take more than 1 hour. The studs weigh 1.5g each (150g total for you MIT grads). The base of the studs sit flush with the inside of the tire so I don't think I'll need a protective strip. So far I have only done the front tire and it works great! I'm tempted to do a 2nd row of studs and also do the rear tire, but it seems to be doing well so far. I have done several rides, including pavement, and the studs have not dislodged, and I have had no flats.

 

[Valhalla]

Awesome - that is the way to do it!! Are you running tubless? When you say they sit flush with the inside of the tire what do you mean? Isn't there a chance they poke further through when wieghted?

 

[campykid]

I am not running tubeless. I would like to post photos of the inside of the tire; next time I have to take it off. By flush, I mean the broad head of the stud sits flat against the inside of the tire (like a thumb tack) and I hope there is not enough of a sharp edge to erode into the tube; time will tell. I have seen no evidence of the studs becoming displaced thus far.

 

[sean salach]

To be safe, I would dab some of the silicone that dude in the other thread used on each stud head. It would suck to destroy a tube because of it. Looks pretty cool though, and at only 150 grams seems very worth while!

 

[veloborealis]

Status report?

I am not running tubeless. I would like to post photos of the inside of the tire; next time I have to take it off. By flush, I mean the broad head of the stud sits flat against the inside of the tire (like a thumb tack) and I hope there is not enough of a sharp edge to erode into the tube; time will tell. I have seen no evidence of the studs becoming displaced thus far.

How are things working out? Any problems with the studs staying in place? Tubes holding up?

 

[campykid]

The studded front endomorph is working great. Last weekend I rode some huge steep wet ice flows and the front tire held well. I had less confidence than I would with my 336 studded Freddies, but I had no slippage. However, coming back up the ice flow was impossible with my non-studded rear endomorph while my buddies with their conventionally studded Nokians buzzed up without difficulty. I have since ordered an Innova Spyder for the rear tire for the additional drive traction and will stud it before mounting it. I've never seen the tire so I don't know the position and quantity of studs I will place. I expect to place them more midline since I need more drive traction than cornering traction in the rear (I think). By the way, no flats or stud displacements yet.

 

[Secace]

Very cool! :thumbsup:

 

[rocwandrer]

when i did this (with a different tire and steel studs) I found that the edge of the stud chaffed against the tube and over time probably would have created a leak. I solved it two different ways on two different tires. On one, I put little patches of medical tape over the heads of the studs. On the other, I used a sliced open old tube as a tire liner. I noticed that the one with medical tape actually worked a little tiny bit better, and I think this is because it spread the "push out force" over a little larger area, allowing the studs to apply a little more pressure to the ground.

I think tubeless with this setup would be asking the glue to do all the work of keeping the studs in contact with the ground, and that would be a step in the wrong direction (even if the glue sticks to the rubber better than I think it would).

Locally, I couldn't find any aluminum casing studs and they certainly didn't have anything with a big pan head like that. Got a mfg name and part number, or an application they are intended for, or anything like that?

 

[Gingerdawg]

I did a little looking around, as these carbide studs are very interesting to me. It appears thet Ugigrip is a French company and there isn't too many US distributors. http://www.ugigrip.fr/netdata/ugiv2.mac/studcatch?lang=EN&ml1=STUDCAT
There is one guy selling some steel case/carbide insert 9mm x 12mm studs on Ebay. They are just slightly larger than the 8mm x11mm that the OP used and of course the steel case would be heavier.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...feddcdf&itemid=140317694700&ff4=263602_263622

 

[campykid]

Ugigrip studs

I called the car tire place where I bought the studs and asked him who his distributor is and he gave me the name of Mohawk Tire Supply in Boston (http://www.mohawkrubber.com/). I hope this helps.

 

[campykid]

You guys were right!

I got my first flat today on my front-studded endomorph. Sure enough, one of my beautiful smooth flush stud heads had eroded into the tube. I patched it and put duct tape over each head. Insecure with this fix, I put a dab of silicone caulk over each piece of tape. We'll see if this works.

 

[mplsmtb]

I got my first flat today on my front-studded endomorph. Sure enough, one of my beautiful smooth flush stud heads had eroded into the tube. I patched it and put duct tape over each head. Insecure with this fix, I put a dab of silicone caulk over each piece of tape. We'll see if this works.

I would guess that fix should work. Just silicon has always worked for me, but then again I don't have to worry as much about the studs pushing back into the tube.

 

[mtbxplorer]

I got my first flat today on my front-studded endomorph. Sure enough, one of my beautiful smooth flush stud heads had eroded into the tube. I patched it and put duct tape over each head. Insecure with this fix, I put a dab of silicone caulk over each piece of tape. We'll see if this works.

Those look nice!

As much as I love duct tape, I tried that on my first pair & still flatted prematurely when the duct tape shifted or wore through. Try a tire liner (or 2?) like Mr. Tuffy...flats are no fun in winter.

I don't have a fatbike, but on my reg MTB I needed to put some studs closer to the centerline for grip on glare ice... maybe with the lower pressure you can run on the fat tires you don't need that though.

 

[Riken]

wonder if these would work from the outside. don't know the length of them.
http://www.benscycle.net/index.php?...d=6570&zenid=a06dfce5ee41e32247de576e0e47ae16

don't drill all the way through, then insert these. as long as the studs are the correct length...casing flush with the rubber. it would be a matter of finding the correct length casing and preferably aluminum to keep the weight down.

and about the "push out force"...i think its negligible considering how much weight is on a tire and on a stud, for example put 10-20 psi in a tube by itself and push on it with 1 fingertip....it doesn't take much force to indent it and the tip of your finger is larger than the base of these studs.

 

[rocwandrer]

wonder if these would work from the outside. don't know the length of them.
http://www.benscycle.net/index.php?...d=6570&zenid=a06dfce5ee41e32247de576e0e47ae16

don't drill all the way through, then insert these. as long as the studs are the correct length...casing flush with the rubber. it would be a matter of finding the correct length casing and preferably aluminum to keep the weight down.

and about the "push out force"...i think its negligible considering how much weight is on a tire and on a stud, for example put 10-20 psi in a tube by itself and push on it with 1 fingertip....it doesn't take much force to indent it and the tip of your finger is larger than the base of these studs.

Show me a bicycle tube that will take 20 psi by itself, and I will show you a broken pressure gauge.

Because the head of the stud is smaller than your finger, it will take even less force to indent it.... Not sure what you are trying to say?

It is a simple ratio. Without the stud pushing out some (really in), the contact pressure of the stud can't exceed the pressure in the tube times the area ratio between the head of the stud and the tip.

 

[Riken]

Because the head of the stud is smaller than your finger, it will take even less force to indent it.... Not sure what you are trying to say?

that's exactly what i'm trying to say. a tube with 10psi in it will have very little force pushing on 1 stud because the base has such a small area, so the glue will be doing all the work whether tubed or tubeless. just push on a stud with something and see how easy it will push inside the tire with a tube and without glue.

 

[rocwandrer]

that's exactly what i'm trying to say. a tube with 10psi in it will have very little force pushing on 1 stud because the base has such a small area, so the glue will be doing all the work whether tubed or tubeless. just push on a stud with something and see how easy it will push inside the tire with a tube and without glue.

A 2 mm diameter carbide tip with a 10 mm stud head against a 10 psi tube can exert 250 psi of pressure into the ice before the stud wants to push into the tube to redistribute the load. So, studs can be effective at low pressures without glue (which I know from experimentation), but they will move around. If the glue really works well, I guess that is great. I'm skeptical though. the twisting and stuff that the stud goes through as the tire rolls seems to put a lot of odd combined stresses into the glue joint. By using a backer, you can get more than 250 psi in the above situation, without damaging the tube, and without counting on the glue to do all the work.

 

[Drew Diller]

Sweet, I just scored a 1,000 count box of Ugigrip TMSI 12 SL studs off of ebay for 42 bucks. Probably won because everyone was busy handing out Halloween candy.

I'll try to remember to get some pics of the modification process.

 

[modifier]

I once made up a set of ice tires with 1.5" shinny tires with machine screws screwed in from the inside out. They stuck out perhaps 3/8 of an inch. Lined the tire with duct tape to protect the tube. Didn't put a lot of miles on them but never flatted in the few times I went out.

Had more traction on ice and frozen snow than in the try with normal tires.

 

[Drew Diller]

Studs showed up.