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orthonormal
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Where is “here”?
There is the same exact situation in every west coast riding destination I’ve visited, even places with excellent legal trails like the PNW.
Same in kind, different in scope.
 

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I’m far from cool enough to know where any trails are - but thankful for the tip on the heatmap. I also changed the activity permissions so only followers can see.
 

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Don't twist my words. This is a statement about land managers resistance to recognize the changing demands of recreation. Trails once rogue and outside of the land managers build specs can and have been adopted.
-See Fort Ord in Monterey County for a prime example of this happening....
 

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F*** it
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^^ It's extremely hard to get that done in a state park, although the park managers in Santa Cruz County have been really good about looking the other way.
 

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¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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^^ It's extremely hard to get that done in a state park, although the park managers in Santa Cruz County have been really good about looking the other way.
This is very true and happening on some state owned land down here. California Fish n Wildlife was reported to have ticketed a MTB rider just a few days ago.
 

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1. If your friends use Strava for mountain biking, there is literally no reason to have the Heatmap enabled. Show them how to disable it.

2. Don't promote locations or names of unsanctioned trails on the Internet in any form, unless you're the builder and you DGAF.

3. Encourage your friends who ride to never be Generation 3 trail users:

View attachment 1911037
Now this is gold.
 

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I'm not sad. I frankly don't GAF. I know the land managers are astute enough that they learn quick where that stuff is. If they have the resources (which includes the manpower) then they can do something about it if they want. Where I live, they do, sometimes. I know a couple guys who got arrested for building where they shouldn't. I definitely don't see a gray area.

If you build it, people will find it. And they don't have to be people that have been shown said trails by someone "in the know" or to have heard about them by word-of-mouth. People who are observant can find them just by noticing the trail when they pass by it. Some people are dorks who like staring at satellite imagery, and in the right environment, a trail will show up bright as day.

If you want to restrict access to something to keep traffic down, the only way you can do that is to build somewhere that you can control access. You can't do that on public land. You can't do that on someone else's private land where you lack permission to put the trails there (and therefore have an access agreement with the landowner).



Some of the local Facebook groups are somewhat popular, but I'd say that most riders aren't on those, either. I use them mostly so I can keep up on trail conditions. The only other local bike group on FB that's worth anything is the bike market one. I know a few people that restrict their social media use to Strava only, even. Frankly, the only way to keep people from recording a trail on Strava is to keep them off of it. Given the difficulty of doing that, the next best thing is not building it in the first place.
He's not saying DON'T RECORD, he's suggesting NOT SHARING the data to the public heatmap. As an old nerd, you should recognize the difference. Maybe you're just more old than nerd nowadays. Your solution of "if you don't build it, they won't come" is unhelpful and counterproductive. You ever been to a parks meeting? They're so busy arguing over what to name this or that grove and if it's racist or not, or if feral cats should be killed to save the birds, that they could give two sh**ts about MTB trails. They don't care, and nothing progressive or interesting is getting built waiting for their permission.
 

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since 4/10/2009
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He's not saying DON'T RECORD, he's suggesting NOT SHARING the data to the public heatmap. As an old nerd, you should recognize the difference. Maybe you're just more old than nerd nowadays. Your solution of "if you don't build it, they won't come" is unhelpful and counterproductive. You ever been to a parks meeting? They're so busy arguing over what to name this or that grove and if it's racist or not, or if feral cats should be killed to save the birds, that they could give two sh**ts about MTB trails. They don't care, and nothing progressive or interesting is getting built waiting for their permission.
Yeah, I have...and y'all in Norcal really do live in a different country. A lot of what happens out there works VERY differently in other places.

Kindly telling people to use privacy settings is one thing. There are a LOT of reasons (aside from publicizing illegal trails) one might want to take the effort to use the privacy settings you're given. But EXPECTING others to set them how YOU want them isn't going to work.
 

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Ride On!
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I hear you on this, seems that many of the "secret" trails in my area (El Dorado Hills) are now becoming more everyday trails with many people parking in the neighborhood (posted everywhere," No Trespassing") that has not been too open to outsiders at all. Guess it won't be long until the hurricane fences also go around there too. With that said, I have been considering to do away with using Strava as several longtime riders (20+ years) have done. When asked they seemed to want to get rid of the ball and chain and get back to just enjoying riding. I think I might try it out without Strava for a month or so, except that would create a gap in tracking my yearly goals, oh well, at least I am considering it. And for the rest of you, TURN OFF your damn Heatmaps!!
 

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I hear you on this, seems that many of the "secret" trails in my area (El Dorado Hills) are now becoming more everyday trails with many people parking in the neighborhood (posted everywhere," No Trespassing") that has not been too open to outsiders at all. Guess it won't be long until the hurricane fences also go around there too. With that said, I have been considering to do away with using Strava as several longtime riders (20+ years) have done. When asked they seemed to want to get rid of the ball and chain and get back to just enjoying riding. I think I might try it out without Strava for a month or so, except that would create a gap in tracking my yearly goals, oh well, at least I am considering it. And for the rest of you, TURN OFF your damn Heatmaps!!
You should leave the cars that look like mtb vehicles a nice polite note .

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
 

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There is a case to be made here for "flooding the zone", i.e., creating fake trails on impossible ridgelines and then "riding" them every few days so they heat up on the map. Same thing with Trailforks since they are unresponsive in removing trails. And one more point, E-bikers especially seem to often post routes that start and end at their house, inviting a garage break-in.
 

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Come to think of it, Ride With GPS has a heatmap feature as well. So if any of you are using that service and riding off-map trails, please opt out.

I guess the real ask here is: Please investigate whether any of your GPS-enabled fitness tracker apps and/or devices are collecting anonymized aggregated user data which is then integrated with a publicly searchable map, the use of which could result in a disappointing situation in which the authorities are alerted to the existence of trails which many of us would prefer remain secret, so we may continue having fun, which is what this is all about in the first place.
 
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