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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I ride a TI racer X 29er - love it. Now I want to build a light weight hardtail 29er. I have never ridden steel!

Do I go with a custom TI or steel or just get a Fisher HT frame. Also any builders doing a scandium 29er frame. Rode a Salsa solo SS (26") the other day - that was a nice frame. not as brittle as a fisher Hardtail.

Is steel lighter or heavier (in general) than Ti.
 

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what!!!!!

you have ti and want something else? steel won't ride as nice, probably will not be lighter, or if it is it won't ride very stiff. aluminum will ride so stiff compared to ti. however, i got an email from pepperman who said salsa's 29 offering will be out in october. im hoping for scandium, myself. i have their road bike, and scandium is a really nice riding material. that being said, how's the titus 29 er geometry? i was thinking of having one made but my only experience is the karate monkey.( which is an excellent handling bike, btw)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
olds_cool said:
you have ti and want something else? steel won't ride as nice, probably will not be lighter, or if it is it won't ride very stiff. aluminum will ride so stiff compared to ti. however, i got an email from pepperman who said salsa's 29 offering will be out in october. im hoping for scandium, myself. i have their road bike, and scandium is a really nice riding material. that being said, how's the titus 29 er geometry? i was thinking of having one made but my only experience is the karate monkey.( which is an excellent handling bike, btw)
Salsa's doing a 29er!! Cool. I didn't know that. Love the Titus. I have a 26" as well. The 29er is custom, so geo was to my liking - long TT, 71 degree steer angle. Chris builds a great bike, but it's kind of heavy, but it is unbreakable. I got it built for a 200 lb rider! If I go Ti i would want lighter tubing, but would be worried about lateral stiffness. does stell have the same tradeoff?
 

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you'd have to talk to a builder, but...

michaelo said:
I got it built for a 200 lb rider! If I go Ti i would want lighter tubing, but would be worried about lateral stiffness. does stell have the same tradeoff?
i would say that a four and a half pound frame in a 29er would be light. ive ridden excellent four pound 26 in wheel frames in steel, but much less and they wiggle like ti. probably it would be fragile as well. im in the same weight range and stand six two, so i ride tall bikes. i think the ti stuff for 29ers are all around four and a half pounds, too. when i was looking for a 29er frame, i emailed salsa on a whim, and they said they were going to do it. we'll see, but i bet a scandium frame would be 3.5 lbs. it would be a much better ride than straight up aluminum. scandium rides like light, stiff steel.
 

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I think steel rides nicer than Ti, but it's all subjective and differs per bike frame, builder tubes etc.

Salsa's 29er sounds neat, but you know it will have a tiny top tube...still don't know why companys do that, I have to say that one of the reasons the Karate Monkey sells so well is because it's the only Surly with a long top tube
 

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Huh....

appleSSeed said:
I think steel rides nicer than Ti, but it's all subjective and differs per bike frame, builder tubes etc.

Salsa's 29er sounds neat, but you know it will have a tiny top tube...still don't know why companys do that, I have to say that one of the reasons the Karate Monkey sells so well is because it's the only Surly with a long top tube
If Surly builds all of their frame short except for the KM, maybe Salsa will also build their 29'er on the long side? They are under the same roof....

If the TT on the salsa is around 23.5 for a 17 or 18, I'll be among the first. I know they are doing a scandium track bike this year, hopefully the rumors of a 29 are also true.
 

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Rumors are the Salsa 29" will be scandium, EBB(for the SS lovers) and a softtail ala the Ibis Ripley. That last bit remains to be seen though...I'll be attending Interbike and will be sure to get shots, and maybe even a ride if I can wait in line that freakin' long.
 

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Holy Crap.

~martini~ said:
Rumors are the Salsa 29" will be scandium, EBB(for the SS lovers) and a softtail ala the Ibis Ripley. That last bit remains to be seen though...I'll be attending Interbike and will be sure to get shots, and maybe even a ride if I can wait in line that freakin' long.
I hope your right about the softtail part! That would be hot. I know which booth I will be making a beeline to at the show:)

Even if the softtail part is a vicious rumor, I'd be stoked to see a scandium, ebb, disc or canti, single or geared type of a deal. Good on them for stepping up!

B
 

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The weight of any steel or ti bike depends on the builder - the trick in any frame is to get the right balance between stiffness and compliance. Stiffness for power transfer, snappy acceleration, and precise handling, and compliance to soak up the bumps.

My custom steel 29er frame is 4.5 pounds and handles like a dream. I considered spending the extra dough for ti, but I'm glad I didn't. I ride a custom ti road bike that I love btw. Frame weight is not nearly as important as ride quality.

michaelo said:
I ride a TI racer X 29er - love it. Now I want to build a light weight hardtail 29er. I have never ridden steel!

Do I go with a custom TI or steel or just get a Fisher HT frame. Also any builders doing a scandium 29er frame. Rode a Salsa solo SS (26") the other day - that was a nice frame. not as brittle as a fisher Hardtail.

Is steel lighter or heavier (in general) than Ti.
 

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Holy Cow!

~martini~ said:
Rumors are the Salsa 29" will be scandium, EBB(for the SS lovers) and a softtail ala the Ibis Ripley. That last bit remains to be seen though...I'll be attending Interbike and will be sure to get shots, and maybe even a ride if I can wait in line that freakin' long.
Put another email in to the pepperman......the softtail bit is confirmed! One inch of pivotless travel! Assuming the toptube length is reasonable, I know what my next bike will be. Anybody interested in a 18 inch monkey with "custom" barney purple paint?

Good News!

B
 

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While I've owned 4 steel bikes, I've only owned one ti bike (#11 WTB Phoenix). I kick myself every day for selling the Ti one. In my opinion, it rode much nicer than any of the steel bikes (including the two steel Phoenie I had). If you're the type of person to hang on to a frame for a while, get the ti.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks for the feedback y'awl

I have a Ti Road bike as well and love it. however it is not "snappy" in acceleration compared to my carbon frame.

That's why I want to consider steel in a MTB - lateral stiffness. From what I am hearing in the replies

Steel and Ti have similar qualities and weight parameters.
A good builder is the key who dials it for you.
Ti has longivity.

also the salsa will be a 1" pivotless scandium frame
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
from pman at salsa

I can't send out any pictures. The marketing guy doesn't have any ready, yet. Check this out, though - look for it in New York Times Magazine supplement-type-thing. It 's going to be out soon, maybe even this weekend.
and

Twenty-niner is on the way. We'll be showing this off at Interbike, so hopefully there'll be some pictures out on the various cycle related websites. Basically, it's a big wheeled mountain cycle with 1" of pivotless travel. Yes - it is a Scandium frame
oh yeah baby
 

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olds_cool said:
you have ti and want something else? steel won't ride as nice, probably will not be lighter, or if it is it won't ride very stiff. aluminum will ride so stiff compared to ti. however, i got an email from pepperman who said salsa's 29 offering will be out in october. im hoping for scandium, myself. i have their road bike, and scandium is a really nice riding material. that being said, how's the titus 29 er geometry? i was thinking of having one made but my only experience is the karate monkey.( which is an excellent handling bike, btw)
Sofa King, located in the heart of mid-America 29er country, makes Scandium custom frames, including 29ers. I think you can expect to pay around 13-1400 for a frame.
 

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Steel and Ti are VERY similar

... in ride qualities. Either one can be built too stiff, too flexy (in whatever axis) or just right. Weight is very close to the same until you start getting into the really high end titanium ($2500 frames) stuff, then ti is a bit lighter simply because at that price point you can actually use machined and butted tubing throughout.

But get this through your heads, everyone: frame material is NOT the most important variable in determining how a bike rides. A competent builder can make nearly anything (carbon, ti, steel, aluminum) ride fairly well, though aluminum bikes will always be a bit stiffer.

The main advantage of ti is that it doesn't corrode. The main disadvantage is price. Otherwise, a ti bike (all other things being equal) will ride and perform pretty much just like a steel one. Steel is just as durable as ti IF you take care of it. If you like to let your bike get wet a lot and don't dry it out fast and rustproof things every once in a while, then it won't last.

I could do ti frames, but it would cost 5 times as much for the materials and take twice as long to build. I think that extra $1000 you have left over after getting a steel bike will buy you some really nice parts, and you'll end up with a bike that rides the same, is lighter, and has better components. But you'll have to take care of it. Of course, if you have an infinite budget and you're getting top-notch parts anyway, that's a moot point. But not many of us have that kind of scratch.

-Walt
 

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Wow, a pivotless Scandium softtail, I know Scnadium could be made to flex, but by that much? They wouldn't put an EBB in there as well, would they?
Right now, Salsa only offers their Bandito hardtail in a large size, 22", but the TT is only 615mm, which is less than the KM's 20". Surly and Salsa won't have overlooked how much positive feedback the KM's geometry got, and how most people might have liked them a bit lower (or longer) still, to find some standover clearance.
I never rode a softtail, but I would have like a Scandium hardtail like a Salsa for a pure race project. Or would hey manage to match the Fisher's weight, and include a soft rear end...?
 

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Get the best fit

I've got a steel 29r and a Ti 29r and they weigh about the same. They ride about the same (both GREAT!). The Ti won't ever rust, that's nice. But it's pretty much battleship grey. The red one fits better and is red so I like it a little better. Oh yeah, it was a full custom and cost a whole heck of a lot less than the Ti rig.

Of course, one cannot discount the bling bling factor. You show up with a fancy Ti ride and people will note. Show up with a skinny tubed steel frame and people will yawn. Then they'll talk about that "magical Ti ride" and all of that bull. It would be better if they just said it really rocks because you can buff out scratches, it never needs paint, and it'll never rust.
 
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