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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, here is my dilemma - I currently ride a 21" KHS sole one se 2007 frame. I love the way the bike fits me and handles. However, everyone I've talked to who has tried putting a rear disk brake on this bike frame has bent the seat stays. So I am currently running a disk brake on the front with rim brakes on the rear, which actually works quite well, but severely limits wheel options. Also the frame is pretty heavy even for a steel frame.

I'd like to find a slightly lighter steel frame that I would allow me to use a disk brake on the rear (which would of course be any frame currently made). A 21" S.I.R. 9 looks perfect geometry wise, but I hate the idea of an ebb because I am very picky about my saddle position and bike fit and I do not want to have to change the position of my saddle even a little bit either relative to the peddles or relative to the handle bar just because I change gearing. A Jabberwocky does not come in a seat tube length long enough to fit me (I am also very picky about that - I don't like the way too much seat post effects overall feel - I need a frame with at least a 53 cm seat tube.).

Some other frames that may not be any lighter that I have also ruled out are Monocog flight because the top tube is too short and Jamis Dragon One because it is designed for 100 mm fork and I want to run a rigid fork (I don't know of many 490mm fork options and that just seems too long anyway.) So, are my only options a custom frame or are there other possiblities? Thanks
 

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I ride an XL MCR and a 20" jabber and am 6'5". If you're much taller than that the jabber might be questionable on size, but it fits me just fine. There's a decent amount of seatpost showing, but nothing ridiculous. If you can I'd give one a try and see how you like it before ruling it out since it seems to match most of your criteria. Using a 410mm thomson seatpost I don't notice any ride issues due to the amount of seatpost showing.
 

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I agree on the Jabber.... give it a try. I am 6'2" with a really long inseam and there is not that much seatpost sticking out. Also, the frame weighs exactly 5.01lbs, where the niner large weighed 4.99 pounds with the ebb and 5.27 in the XL size with the ebb installed, so weight is right in the same ballpark.

If you are in AZ you are welcome to try my bike...
 

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Ride Difference?

tiflow_21 said:
I ride an XL MCR and a 20" jabber and am 6'5". If you're much taller than that the jabber might be questionable on size, but it fits me just fine. There's a decent amount of seatpost showing, but nothing ridiculous. If you can I'd give one a try and see how you like it before ruling it out since it seems to match most of your criteria. Using a 410mm thomson seatpost I don't notice any ride issues due to the amount of seatpost showing.
Sorry to go off topic but I am trying to choose between a Bandersnatch and an MCR. Is the MCR ride any better. I had a Jabberwocky and loved it.
 

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On One Inbred is another option (I really like mine). It comes in a 21" frame size (measured to the top edge of the seat tube) and the large sizes do not have much slope to the top tube. Unfortunately it probably won't save you any weight as the XL frame is most likely over 5.5 lbs
 

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Stayin' Puft
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A Non-Custom Siren John Henry, XL. Paragon sliders. $995 stock geometry and color choices.

Yeah, I want one too...but in reality I would probably pay a couple hundred extra for the Aluminum Trauco with Ahrens sliders if I was getting a Siren. Wouldn't turn down a JH tho.

And not to pile on since you said you don't want a Jabber, but I am 6' 3.5" and ride a large comfortably. I am not sure why you are focused on seat tube length, I shop by effective top tube first, head angle next, head tube length next, then standover. Not really caring how long the seat tube is as long as the seat post goes up long enough and I don't rack the boys on the tt. You did not mention the ETT length you are after. Agree that I would not seek out another bike with an EBB on purpose.
 

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more beers, lees gears.
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tamen00 said:
I agree on the Jabber....

If you are in AZ you are welcome to try my bike...
nice to know another jaberwocky rider here in AZ. i know 1 other. clashFMB.

where do you normally ride tamen00?

im usually around the east valley on a custom gunmetal blue/green jabber.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for all the helpful replies. As several people who are as tall or taller than me say that the Jabberwocky works well for them, I guess I should really consider it. I'm 6'3", but my legs are relatively long. I run my saddle at about 79.5 cm from center of bb to top of saddle.

I have a hard time determining my preferred effective top tube lengh because it seems very relative to sta as I am setting the saddle position relative to the peddles. I'd guess that I'm looking for an ett between 625-635. I prefer the steering feel with a 115 - 120 mm stem. The published 638 on my khs is slightly too long, causing me to run a shorter stem - seem like most 21" frames have about a 640mm ett, which only fits me well if I shorten my stem to 105-110mm, but that feels ok. As I said, I've tried an xl monocog flight and it's 620mm ett seemed a little bit too short.

I guess all that is a long way of saying that if other riders as tall or taller than me are happy with the large Jabberwocky than maybe I really ought to try one because the ett seems about perfect. I'll look more into the geometries of the other suggested options as well. Thanks!
 

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The Ventana El Comandantel looks nice. The pic on the web site is with the EBB, but Ventana does have a swinging drop out similar to the Black Cat swinger.

I'm much shorter than you, but I have the Comandantes geared brother, the El Padrino and love it.

They can do custom, but it starts to get spendy quick.
 

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MarkJ70 said:
Thanks for all the helpful replies. As several people who are as tall or taller than me say that the Jabberwocky works well for them, I guess I should really consider it. I'm 6'3", but my legs are relatively long. I run my saddle at about 79.5 cm from center of bb to top of saddle.

I have a hard time determining my preferred effective top tube lengh because it seems very relative to sta as I am setting the saddle position relative to the peddles. I'd guess that I'm looking for an ett between 625-635. I prefer the steering feel with a 115 - 120 mm stem. The published 638 on my khs is slightly too long, causing me to run a shorter stem - seem like most 21" frames have about a 640mm ett, which only fits me well if I shorten my stem to 105-110mm, but that feels ok. As I said, I've tried an xl monocog flight and it's 620mm ett seemed a little bit too short.

I guess all that is a long way of saying that if other riders as tall or taller than me are happy with the large Jabberwocky than maybe I really ought to try one because the ett seems about perfect. I'll look more into the geometries of the other suggested options as well. Thanks!
I wouldn't want to run a stem longer than 100mm anymore. Times have changed and 120mm and longer stems are a thing of the past, and its more than just fashion. Less of the half over the bars feeling means better downhilling, among other reasons. I would totally go for the longer ETT. Most new bikes are designed around 110mm max stems in terms of top tube length vs frame "size", as you are finding
 

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the flerg
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The comments Mark makes about the EBB changing seat and pedal position are true and worth considering. I have a SIR9 and love the geometry and the 853 steel for the price but the EBB is the first and last one I'll own. It's a real pain in the ass to adjust no matter what a LBS or Niner says. Once it's dialed in it can be bliss, but trying to change the cog or tighten the chain proves frustrating.

What about Spot? They started Paragon slider options (I've seen one). Be careful of the Dembala, I had a friend who broke one in half in a race and he is 200lbs.

good luck
 

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Witty McWitterson
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Puleese. I'll reiterate:

If you ride a mountain bike over all kinds of terrain, in and out of the saddle, up and over roots, rocks and logs, under low branches and trees, hopping off to scramble trough the bramble, then it really DOESN'T matter. If it does, I'm serious when I say:

Get a road bike. The dirt may not be for you.
 

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the flerg
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Why would someone with the skills that Martini even need a saddle? For the rest of us mortals, especially who use SS for epic rides and endurance races, get the fit right because it matters. One day I'll aspire to do my next 6 hour solo without the use of the saddle and live up your expectations M. For now, I'll just keep the seat adjusted right, save my legs from poor fit, and add to my podium finishes.

And then I'll go for a ride on my road bike.
 
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