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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
so, i got my new 717/xt wheels and got new panaracer fire xc 127 tpi (@ performance, in store for $20 each - AWESOME!!!!) and went to the shop today to get the stans kit and the mechanic tells me the stans will eat away at the tire and they even have a sign up for this. does stan's sealant really do that?
 

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It never ruined a set of my tires when I used it...your typical mis-informed Performance Bike Shop mechanic is probably referring to the rare instance that a tire may delaminate and it just so happens that when your using Stans (or other latex sealant with ammonia in it...Stans is <1% ammonia) they blame the sealant. I would argue that the tire was defective, however this is a defect that would probably not have been detected using tubes.

So IMO...it is not that Stans can ruin a tire, its simply that a defective tire fails while using Stans. And since most tire manufacturers will not warranty a non-tubeless tire being run tubeless...they absolve themselves of all responsibility for making a defective product.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
it wasn't at performance that i was told this. matter of fact, it was a mechanic at performance that said if i need any help setting it up, bring it in. it was a different, local bike shop. a fairly repuitable (and very overpriced) shop. they wanted $89 for the stans kit.

anyways, i am just asking. the guy seemed pretty knowledgeable about it, and maybe a little disgruntled about it as it sounds like they get a lot of repairs from it.
 

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anyways, i am just asking. the guy seemed pretty knowledgeable about it, and maybe a little disgruntled about it as it sounds like they get a lot of repairs from it.
Seams like that shop would want to sell more then...brings in repairs

You could save yourself about $60 going ghetto tubeless
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
mtnbiker72 said:
Seams like that shop would want to sell more then...brings in repairs

You could save yourself about $60 going ghetto tubeless
you would think they would be encouraging the $89 sell for the kit and the added repairs, so the fact that he persuaded me not to do it got me thinking.

i could go ghetto, but it still leaves the issue of the sealant.
 

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It may be the type of tire perhaps? I hadn't ridden my Stumpy for a while (2 months?) and prepped it one Friday before a weekend ride. Took off Maxxis Ignitor UST, looked fine and then poured in more Stan's. Took off the Specialized Captain Control 2Bliss and the Stan's that was left was pure black...as if it mixed and/or ate away at the tire. Did the same for my Intense (same tires) and same thing, but Spec tire was not as black. Freaky looking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
mtnbiker72 said:
You can still use Stan's sealant or if your adventurous brew up your own (which goes hand in hand with the "spirit" of Ghetto)

If you want an example, I have a recipe on my blog
yeah, but the whole point of this post was about the stan's sealant eating away at the tire. i have no issue with the stan's rim strip, but if i were to use a homebrew i would probably just go ghetto then.
 

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I have heard of Stan's delaminating the inside of some tires. I've never seen it and have used Stan's with a variety of different wheels/tires. Though perhaps a bit overpriced, the Stan's system works too well for me to worry about it.
 

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Blatant said:
I have heard of Stan's delaminating the inside of some tires. I've never seen it and have used Stan's with a variety of different wheels/tires. Though perhaps a bit overpriced, the Stan's system works too well for me to worry about it.
I HAVE seen it. In used tires where the casing was likely pinched/cut and let the sealant between the casing plies. The bond between the threads broke down and the tire failed.

I did static tests with new tires, Stans sealant and a non-latex sealant. After 6 months there was no visible damage to the inside of the tires.

And yes, many companies warn against using their tires with sealants (any model), without inner tubes (standard models) and/or Tubeless tires on standard rims without inner tubes.
 

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I've sealed several tires with stans sealant and swap tires once, maybe twice a year--depending on m bike and riding conditions. I have not had, nor have I seen any tires destroyed by Notubes. I currently have a kenda nevegal that has been sealed on a rim since 2006 and it is fine. Your fire XC tires will not be eaten or destroyed by the sealant, however those tires are not the best candidates for DIY tubeless. Those tires are pleny supple with high performance tubes. There is a large thread with all the standard tires that have converted to tubeless, I'm sure there are other opinions about these tires with Notubes.
 

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NoTubes.com
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You HAVE NOT seen it because it doesn't happen. I have lengthy reports on the subject as well as information from tests performed by many tire manufacturers. The delamination that can be found in a tire happens with a tube as well and can actually happen faster whether it is a tube type tire or tubeless tire used in a tubeless manner. It's just more evident when sealant is introduced because the tire itself will often still retain the air pressure causing the delaminated area to inflate into a small bubble.

Ever tear a knob from a tire? Same mechanisms at work, knobs wouldn't tear from the casing if the bonding were perfect and it this time it is not perfect unfortunately.

Know of what you speak if you wish to declare it publicly.
 

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Your shop is grossly misinformed, feel free to have them give me a call.
 

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Mike B. said:
You HAVE NOT seen it because it doesn't happen. I have lengthy reports on the subject as well as information from tests performed by many tire manufacturers. The delamination that can be found in a tire happens with a tube as well and can actually happen faster whether it is a tube type tire or tubeless tire used in a tubeless manner. It's just more evident when sealant is introduced because the tire itself will often still retain the air pressure causing the delaminated area to inflate into a small bubble.

Ever tear a knob from a tire? Same mechanisms at work, knobs wouldn't tear from the casing if the bonding were perfect and it this time it is not perfect unfortunately.

Know of what you speak if you wish to declare it publicly.
We are basically saying the SAME THING!

I HAVE seen tires that delaminated and failed when used without inner tubes and with a liquid sealant. I believe the sealant was a contributing factor in the separation of the casing and rupture. If the same tires had been used with an inner tube--as intended--in the same situation, the casings would still have be mechanically damaged, but have remained intact.
 

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Does Stan's have ammonia in it? Ammonia is corrosive to aluminum. There was an article in Zinn's column on Velonews recently about ammonia in sealants causing rims to corrode.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
MikeDee said:
Does Stan's have ammonia in it? Ammonia is corrosive to aluminum. There was an article in Zinn's column on Velonews recently about ammonia in sealants causing rims to corrode.
the bike shop was telling me that there is ammonia and this is what causes the damage to the tire.
 

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I've been using Notubes since it came out...total of three different rims, no corrosion on any of my rims. I would think that if this was serious issue, someone would have reported on this board by now...

Now as far as tires are concerned, that could very well be the case as rubber compounds can vary greatly from manufacturers and ammonia is a great solvent. Once again, I have never seen a tire failure directly related to the usage of notubes despite the diverse array of tires I have mounted, however, I wouldn't be overtly shocked if it did happen.
 

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I'm with Iceaxe. Have used Stan's on 3 different rims and have had no problems. To bad you can't buy a set of used tire to use as a test.You won't have to worry about the tire manufacturer's warranties and you can see for yourself. That what I did and I'm still riding those used Kenda and it's been more than a year.
 

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golfernut78 said:
the bike shop was telling me that there is ammonia and this is what causes the damage to the tire.
Nothing shows that ammonia does anything to tire rubber, even if the sealant has any in it, which it does not IIRC.
 
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