[BobShort]

I'm in the process of building my very first 29er. I know. Take a bow...

Anyway, I wanted to build some wheels that I could setup tubeless without messing around with rim strips and all that garbage. Stan's seems to be the rim of choice so I ordered up a set of ZTR 355s.

I just got them today and quite frankly I was appalled at the quality. The burrs on the welds were so big they were almost flush with the bead hook. There is no way that is was going to seal. With some careful Dremel work and a bit of sandpaper I got them pretty flat. Now I just hope I haven't damaged the rims.

Is it just me or does having to crack out the Dremel on some brand new supposedly premium rims really SUCK?! For the cost of these rims some level of quality control would be nice.

That is my rant. Done.

Now my question. Are there any other 29er rim out that that you can easily be set up tubeless without rim strips or any conversion kit? I know there are some proprietary wheels out there (mavic, easton, cobalt, etc.) but I'd like something I can lace myself on a conventional hub.

Is Stan's the only game it town?

 

[the munts]

Man lots of grumbling about stan's rims on here lately.

I don't think there is a better rim to use with tubeless conversions. I've been racing on my arches for almost a year and a half and have been super happy with them. In my area, stan's rims are one of the few components that almost everyone in the expert field uses. I think that says something about the durability and quality of the rims.

BTW, I think I remember filing a little burr off my rims. It wasn't a big deal, and they're awesome rims, so I'm not complaining

 

[Haroldlikesbikes]

I build a couple hundred wheels a year and easily 75% of them are Stan's. They are the best rim out there right now. Flat out the best. They last a long time, don't weight a ton, are easy to setup tubeless, build up fast, stay true longer, and are almost always perfect out of the box. So what if the weld bulges a bit, its under a sticker and your not running V-brakes anyway.

As for the occasional burr, it happens, file it of and ride the **** out of them. If you compromised the bead then YOU took too much off. Even if you took a tiny bit of the bead out they will still seal and they shouldn't have a real problem holding onto the tire, as the force exerted by the tire on the rim is spread around so much that one missing bit is nothing to worry about.

Appalled by the quality? Seriously? I wonder how appalled you would be walking your bike out because your factory perfect DT 7.1 folded under you when you hit a bump.

 

[BobShort]

In my area, stan's rims are one of the few components that almost everyone in the expert field uses. I think that says something about the durability and quality of the rims.

You make an excellent point. Stan's rims are everywhere and everyone riding them seems to love them. I'll quit my complaining until I have a chance to actually ride them

 

[cruso414]

I used to be a nay-sayer about stan's myself. That is until I rode the sh!t out of a pair of arch's for over a year and they held up better than any rim I have ever used. Most tires (with just a few exceptions) will seal up with a floor pump. I sold them on ebay for $11.00 less than I paid for them new a year earlier. I am now riding Flow's and loving the wider footprint even more than the arch's.

 

[BobShort]

As for the occasional burr, it happens, file it of and ride the **** out of them. If you compromised the bead then YOU took too much off. Even if you took a tiny bit of the bead out they will still seal and they shouldn't have a real problem holding onto the tire, as the force exerted by the tire on the rim is spread around so much that one missing bit is nothing to worry about.

Appalled by the quality? Seriously? I wonder how appalled you would be walking your bike out because your factory perfect DT 7.1 folded under you when you hit a bump.

Appalled? Too strong of a word. Point taken.

What do you use for filing? These burrs nearly filled the bead cavity. I had to resort to a Dremel tool because there was so much to grind.

 

[Fishlips]

Appalled? Too strong of a word. Point taken.

What do you use for filing? These burrs nearly filled the bead cavity. I had to resort to a Dremel tool because there was so much to grind.

Personally I don't think appalled is too strong a word. Stans should have better QC than that. A purchaser shouldn't have to do any filing, that is just plain ridiculous and I doubt Stans wants anyone to have to resort to a dremel on their rim. Would it stop me from using their stuff? No, because they work well but, that doesn't mean we shouldn't expect better.

Write a nice letter to Stans and let them know or post on their bulletin boards. A little constructive feedback is always good.

 

[TerryD]

I used a dremel to get rid of the weld that filled a bit of the bead hook. It took a few minutes and has been perfect since. Maybe, Stan's doesn't think it will effect the performance and therefore doesn't mess with it.
The rims are worth the few minutes.

 

[longdrive55]

Stan's rims are tough, no doubt. I love 'em. However, just because they hold up on the trail, doesn't mean you shouldn't be unhappy having to further prep the rim before you can build it up, especially for the premium price they charge. Frankly, from recent reports it seems that Stan rims and wheel build quality control is leaving something to be desired.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sticking with my Flows but I hope Stan's isn't just dismissing the negative posts/attention they've been getting lately.

 

[AL29er]

Is it just me or does having to crack out the Dremel on some brand new supposedly premium rims really SUCK?! For the cost of these rims some level of quality control would be nice.

Unfortunately Stan's is the only game in town on this particular item. Bontrager has some conversion hoops, Shimano has some complete wheelsets, and Mavic has some complete wheelsets. But for a claimed tubeless compatible rim Stan's is the only solution.

I agree with you though. Stan's charges a premium for rims that are not all that great. I have built about a hundred wheels in my lifetime and IME Stan's are not all that. From a builder's perspective there are better hoops.

Durability-wise the Stan's are good IME. So it is somewhat a wash.

For my latest 29er wheelset I got WTB hoops, FWIW. They were half the price and can be converted nicely :thumbsup:

 

[fallzboater]

Personally I don't think appalled is too strong a word. Stans should have better QC than that. A purchaser shouldn't have to do any filing, that is just plain ridiculous and I doubt Stans wants anyone to have to resort to a dremel on their rim. Would it stop me from using their stuff? No, because they work well but, that doesn't mean we shouldn't expect better.

Agreed. It'd be one thing if they were priced like Sun or WTB, but since they're at least as much as DT or Mavic, one might expect similar quality. I am happy with my Flows (didn't have to do any filing), and would buy another set, though.

 

[metelhead]

I'm in the process of building my very first 29er. I know. Take a bow...

Anyway, I wanted to build some wheels that I could setup tubeless without messing around with rim strips and all that garbage. Stan's seems to be the rim of choice so I ordered up a set of ZTR 355s.

I just got them today and quite frankly I was appalled at the quality. The burrs on the welds were so big they were almost flush with the bead hook. There is no way that is was going to seal. With some careful Dremel work and a bit of sandpaper I got them pretty flat. Now I just hope I haven't damaged the rims.

Is it just me or does having to crack out the Dremel on some brand new supposedly premium rims really SUCK?! For the cost of these rims some level of quality control would be nice.

That is my rant. Done.

Now my question. Are there any other 29er rim out that that you can easily be set up tubeless without rim strips or any conversion kit? I know there are some proprietary wheels out there (mavic, easton, cobalt, etc.) but I'd like something I can lace myself on a conventional hub.

Is Stan's the only game it town?

From everything I have read...largely other threads relating to Stan's...90% of the complaints are having to do with the 355's. I would like to assume that this is clearly an issue of design and weight reduced rim. On the flip side I have heard nothing but praise about the Arch and Flows...anyway I know what Stan's I would buy if ever using their products.

 

[Guitar Ted]

Anyway, I wanted to build some wheels that I could setup tubeless without messing around with rim strips and all that garbage

Unfortunately Stan's is the only game in town on this particular item

Wait a minute.........

Doesn't a Stan's rim require a yellow rim strip from Stan's to work properly for tubelessness? :skep:

How is that any different than Specialized's 2Bliss, Bontrager's TLR, or American Classic's tubeless rims?

You have to "mess around with rim strips" on all of these. The only rims you don't have to are all part of pre-built wheel sets. So they don't fit the criteria here.

FWIW I have been reading a lot of complaints of late in regards to 355 rims. Perhaps that is why there is the new Crest rim taking its place.

At any rate, I feel it is unacceptable for a premium product like Stan's 355 rims to require modifications due to slight defects by end users. I have built a lot of wheels and I wouldn't even use something that cost that much that wasn't quite right. It would be going back to Stan's.

 

[jmoote]

The option to return the rim as defective was there, but the OP decided to fix the issue himself. So would have I, but I think when you decide to fix instead of return the product, you lose any reason to complain about things. It's not like Stan's CS said they would not take it back.

On the other hand, there are very few competing products, if any. While other rims are designed around tubeless setup, some (Mavic, Shimano) are meant to work best with UST beads (i.e. very few tires) and none have the same security as Stans rims provide with standard folding bead tires. Their proprietary bead hook design is the main feature that makes them unique. FRM rims have a similar design, but also infringe on the patent and thus can't be sold in the US and are prohibitively expensive in comparison if you want to get them from Europe.

 

[Harlan]

I've been on all the Stan's 29er rims at some point or another in the past three years. They have always been spot on for me.
But they are a small company that is growing rapidly, mainly because people are realizing how good of a product they are.
That increase in demand might have stressed their QC. From my experience they are very open to constructive criticism. Call or email.

As far as rim price goes, they are one of the most reasonably priced wheelsets out there. Try to get another 1500gr wheelset for a similar price. Much less a 1300gr.

 

[Guitar Ted]

The option to return the rim as defective was there, but the OP decided to fix the issue himself. So would have I, but I think when you decide to fix instead of return the product, you lose any reason to complain about things. It's not like Stan's CS said they would not take it back.

On the other hand, there are very few competing products, if any. While other rims are designed around tubeless setup, some (Mavic, Shimano) are meant to work best with UST beads (i.e. very few tires) and none have the same security as Stans rims provide with standard folding bead tires. Their proprietary bead hook design is the main feature that makes them unique. FRM rims have a similar design, but also infringe on the patent and thus can't be sold in the US and are prohibitively expensive in comparison if you want to get them from Europe.

While I agree with much of what you are saying I do have to take you to task on the comment about there being "few competing products, if any". While this may have been true in the past, there were a couple I mentioned in my previous post and if anyone was paying attention at Interbike, they would be aware of several others coming to market.

That said, I've nothing against Stan's NoTubes products and actually own and use the stuff quite a bit. (Not 355's though. Far too light and flexy for this big guy. )

And it also bears mentioning that while Stan's products work well with several folding and wire bead tires, the tire makers are not designing their tires to work specifically with Stan's. Companies/products like Specialized's 2Bliss, Bontrager's TLR, and the Mavic/Hutchinson/Geax stuff do have that advantage.

That's an important point for many riders.

 

[cruso414]

Wait a minute.........

Doesn't a Stan's rim require a yellow rim strip from Stan's to work properly for tubelessness? :skep:

How is that any different than Specialized's 2Bliss, Bontrager's TLR, or American Classic's tubeless rims?

You have to "mess around with rim strips" on all of these. The only rims you don't have to are all part of pre-built wheel sets. So they don't fit the criteria here.

FWIW I have been reading a lot of complaints of late in regards to 355 rims. Perhaps that is why there is the new Crest rim taking its place.

At any rate, I feel it is unacceptable for a premium product like Stan's 355 rims to require modifications due to slight defects by end users. I have built a lot of wheels and I wouldn't even use something that cost that much that wasn't quite right. It would be going back to Stan's.

I wouldn't compare any of the other tubeless conversions to stan's simply because you are "converting" a standard rim to tubeless where stan's are designed to be run tubeless. IMO, the shorter sidewalls really do make a huge difference when seating and sealing tires. I ran crossmax wheels before the stan's and they were absolutely pathetic (burped air) and felt like riding a noodle. I'm not a stan's cheerleader but when a company is as innovative and produces a product as good as theirs, you gotta give them their props.:thumbsup:

 

[jmoote]

While I agree with much of what you are saying I do have to take you to task on the comment about there being "few competing products, if any". While this may have been true in the past, there were a couple I mentioned in my previous post and if anyone was paying attention at Interbike, they would be aware of several others coming to market.

I don't really consider those mentioned above (Mavic, Bontrager, Shimano, etc.) to be competitors because they do not work in the same way. They have a way of sealing the spoke bed and work tubeless with matching tire systems, but the total number of combinations is quite low in comparison to what is possible with Stans rims. Of course they are viable wheel/tire systems, but they do not offer the same featureset that the Stans rims do. For this reason they share some target customers, but I would say each also has a unique appeal to some groups.

And it also bears mentioning that while Stan's products work well with several folding and wire bead tires, the tire makers are not designing their tires to work specifically with Stan's. Companies/products like Specialized's 2Bliss, Bontrager's TLR, and the Mavic/Hutchinson/Geax stuff do have that advantage.

That's an important point for many riders.

Why is that? It's mostly a legal issue for the tire manufacturers. From a practical standpoint, the majority of non-certified tires work and one can find out by reading here at MTBR and elsewhere which do and don't. There is even a subset of riders who are put off by the tubeless ready lines, as they are generally heavier with the only benefit being durability that is not needed by these riders.

 

[gthcarolina]

And you can call and talk to Stan.

I have called the shop several times in the middle of the day and Stan or one of his people have been cheerful, helpful, and informative. I like supporting the "local" guy.

I have 2 flawless Stan-built wheels, a 355-26 and a 355 650B. The first thing I noticed was how LIGHT they are out of the box. I also have a set of 29er wheels on Archs. Not Stan-built (his are BETTER) but still great with no problems.

I have had a couple of sets of Mavics previously and they were much heavier and not stronger or more airtight.

If Stan made a road tubeless rim I would buy those too.

 

[isleblue65]

And you can call and talk to Stan. I have called the shop several times in the middle of the day and Stan or one of his people have been cheerful, helpful, and informative. I like supporting the "local" guy.

I have 2 flawless Stan-built wheels, a 355-26 and a 355 650B. The first thing I noticed was how LIGHT they are out of the box. I also have a set of 29er wheels on Archs. Not Stan-built (his are BETTER) but still great with no problems.

I have had a couple of sets of Mavics previously and they were much heavier and not stronger or more airtight.

If Stan made a road tubeless rim I would buy those too.

1. If you are lucky enough to talk to a person
2. If you are one of the fortunate customers who they bother to call back after you leave multiple voice messages.

I had the rim boogers at the weld on my Flow rims. It was so jagged that it would have easily cut the tire bead IF I had actually been able to get the bead to start seating in the rim. Before I did any modifications to the rim, I called Stans. No Answer, so I left a voice message. 24 hours later I had not heard back, so I repeated the pattern, called and left another voice message. Another day passed and I read about the bad welds and the Dremel solution on MTBR. I was tired of waiting for Stans and was missing precious days of riding, so I Dremeled down the welds.

I never hear back from Stans.

Saying all that, the rims have been solid and reliable. They have stayed true, they are light and they are strong.

Stans wheels are solid.
Stans quality control and customer service are not.