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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Maybe it's just me but here's my experience:

I've been running converted tubeless on Mavic, DT, and Easton rims for 7? years. Almost the entire time has been with IRC trail bear 2.25s and Maxxis rim strips. I happen to think tubeless ranks right up there with bottled beer. I went from maybe 1 pinch flat a month to maybe 1 cut sidewall a year and zero thorn flats by converting over to tubeless.

Flash forward to present and I got a new frame that required a maxle compatible rear hub so I built up a new wheel with Stan's Flow rims. When I first put the new wheel together I installed a new trail bear and things were fine for 3 months or so.

When I had to replace that tire, I tried running a Maxxis Minion DHR. It took me like an hour to get it seated because the bead was so loose on the Flow rim. The tire practically fell onto the rim. Then I blew it off the rim 2x running it tubeless over the past 2 weeks. Seemed to work fine with a tube. I chalked it up to a loose bead and incompatibility for tubeless conversion

Seeing as I like tubeless so much I bucked up and I got a new Panaracer Rampage and spent 1/2 hr trying to get it seated. It too was ridiculuosly loose on that rim. Could not get it seated no matter how much sealant, soapy water on the bead, and 100 psi compressor. I've been running tubeless for 7 years, I know all the tricks to get these things seated.

So I tried an old trail bear that was mounted tubeless to my old easton wheel for many months, still holding air. It too was quite loose on the Flow rim. Took some effort but I got it to seat. It blew off the rim riding down the street! Maybe the bead was stretched a bit from being mounted for so long but I've never had such a problem in 7 years with that same tire make/model running it converted tubeless.

I came back and mounted each and every tire successfully to my old Easton wheelset with Maxxis rim strips. Each tire held great in my street cornering/hopping/trying to unseat it test.

I know they're light but I think these Flow rims are junk if trying to run converted tubeless. The rim diameter is too small and there's just not enough sidewall interface (or it's too loose) to safely run converted tubeless.

I had researched these rims before purchasing and most folks seemed happy. I have no idea how or why that is the case. I'm stripping the wheel and rebuilding with a Mavic 521.

Just my $.02 to share with anybody considering these things.
 

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Well my experience with the Stans rims is that they fit a little tight. The IRC tires have pretty stretchy beads, I blew off a set on Mavic UST rims many years ago. They are also on the do not use list on Stans webpage so that probably would be reason #1 not to use them with their rims. At the same time the Maxxis rim strips made for a larger diameter bead seat so my guess is that the Trail Bear tires were stretched out. I'm not sure about the Panaracer, I haven't used them in a long time and never used them tubeless.
 

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and yet I'll go to the other side of your extreeme and say they're the best damn, easiest to mount rims for tubeless, granted I've used no other asd I've had no reason to want to - I am talking the 29er versions though. On my Flows I have mounted with no issues and mainly with a Topeak Mtn. Morph hand pump, if not just a normal floor pump - Panaracer Rampage, Kenda Nevegal, Bonti XR1, Schwalbe Racing Ralph, Michelin XC A/T, Bonti MudX TLR, Maxxis Ignitor, Maxxis Crossmark tyres.
Yes, some have fit a bit loose, but they always seat up easily and only time I burped a tyre (think it was an Ignitor) I only had in like 14 PSI crawling on coral-stone and the tyre got caught in a small crevase while I was turning, had to walk the bike back hom, but when I got there just graabbed the Topeak and it aired right up no fuss - went out POd with no tools, pump, nada.
 

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Well, it's not a surprise, it is a known fact that some tires do not work well with Stan's rims. Many other tires work just fine. In many cases you will not know for sure whether a certain tire works on a ZTR unless you try.
 

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I'd have to agree with the OP, but for a different reason. I just had a set of Flows laced to my CK hubs. Just to try something different (other than Nevegals) I mounted up a set of Schwalbe Big Bettys. The rear went on and sealed up fine, I even inflated it with a floor pump. While laying flat on a bucket, the front tire exploded off the rim twice sending the wheel flying into the air. After the second explosion, the wheel was a mangled mess and now needs to be rebuilt. Brand new wheels, never even got a ride on them.

I attributre this to two things..
1. The Flow "low sidewall" concept is good in theory only. There's not enough rim sidewall to hold the bead and tire sidewall against the rim. I can imagine I'll destroy this low side wall once the tire blows off on a rocky trail, leaving me with a "tube use only" wheel.

2. The non UST Schwalbe tires (as I'm finding out), have notorious bad beads. Yet, Schwalbe forbids mounting their UST tires on "alternative" tubeless setups like Flows. And their UST tubeless beads aren't all that great either. This is German engineering?

With the 2 garage explosions, I scared *****less to run the front tubeless now, and will be running tubes only up front. My sole reason for attempting to go tubeless was to avoid the dozen or so rear pinch flats I got last year.

I've accepted the fact this rim is really just a lighter alternative to something like the Mavic 321. It's a lightish AM tubed rim. Just wish I didn't shell out so much cash for them.

Maybe we should start a Stan's rim/tire incompatibility list?
 

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k1creeker said:
I'd have to agree with the OP, but for a different reason. I just had a set of Flows laced to my CK hubs. Just to try something different (other than Nevegals) I mounted up a set of Schwalbe Big Bettys. The rear went on and sealed up fine, I even inflated it with a floor pump. While laying flat on a bucket, the front tire exploded off the rim twice sending the wheel flying into the air. After the second explosion, the wheel was a mangled mess and now needs to be rebuilt. Brand new wheels, never even got a ride on them.
After a tire blows off once the bead is likely stretched and/or failing. If you put that same tire back on again, it'd probably blow off again. I would never expect a tire that has blown off to hold on re-mounting. The second blow off is not surprising in the least. What pressure did you have in the tire?
If a tire blowing off the bead tacoed your rim it was likely WAY overtensioned. You might ask your builder what tension he used.
k1creeker said:
I attributre this to two things..
1. The Flow "low sidewall" concept is good in theory only. There's not enough rim sidewall to hold the bead and tire sidewall against the rim. I can imagine I'll destroy this low side wall once the tire blows off on a rocky trail, leaving me with a "tube use only" wheel.
Stan's design is proven. There are always going to be certain circumstances where things don't work out, but trying to take it back to a fundamental design issue just doesn't square with the thousands of his rims that are out there working very well every day.
k1creeker said:
2. The non UST Schwalbe tires (as I'm finding out), have notorious bad beads. Yet, Schwalbe forbids mounting their UST tires on "alternative" tubeless setups like Flows. And their UST tubeless beads aren't all that great either. This is German engineering?
This is certainly disconcerting. It seems like there have been more and more stories of Schwalbe bead issues.
k1creeker said:
Maybe we should start a Stan's rim/tire incompatibility list?
Done. It's on stan's forums. However, one failed tire bead doesn't mean there's an incompatibility.
 

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I've had zero problems with RaRa's mounted on Flows (which are known for being finicky when converting to tubless- particularly 2.25's). Mine had tubes in them before which I've read can be easier to convert rather than attempting with a brand new tire.
 

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The worst tire I ever tried to use tubeless on mavic, DT and Flow rims was the big Betty. Second on the list is the Racing Ralph followed by the Nevegal.

I've owned 3 sets of wheels built with Flows and would not choose any other rim. I have mounted most Maxxis tires tubeless on them with no issues.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I love the Flow in concept. The low sidewall makes for high strength at low weight and maybe they work well with UST tires, but running converted tubeless has proven too hit and miss for me. I went from 7 years of converted tubeless bliss to 2 weeks of blowout nightmares. And UST tires are heavy, pricey, and selection limited.

The Flow is coming off this weekend. Back to a Mavic 521 and Maxxis rim strips.
 

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could it be that the flow rims are wider and you are using too narrow of a tire? I was reading somewhere that you can't use narrow tires on them. I have flows being built right now so I haven't had a chance to try it out but I am planning on tubless and the tires I already bought are SB8's and Nevgals. I hope I don't run into problems mounting them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
They're 28mm wide rims, same as the DT 5.1s, Mavic 521 and Easton Havoc I've successfully run 2.25 - 2.5 size tires on over the past 7 years. The Minion is 2.35 and the Rampage is 2.35 and the Trail Bear is 2.25.

My advice would be to run UST tires or tubes or be prepared for tire blowoffs if you ride aggresively with converted tubeless.
 

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dodger said:
They're 28mm wide rims, same as the DT 5.1s, Mavic 521 and Easton Havoc I've successfully run 2.25 - 2.5 size tires on over the past 7 years. The Minion is 2.35 and the Rampage is 2.35 and the Trail Bear is 2.25.

My advice would be to run UST tires or tubes or be prepared for tire blowoffs if you ride aggresively with converted tubeless.
thanks i'll keep that in mind. Its a 29er so I couldn't really find UST tires, I think I only found like 2 in existance and they weren't tires I wanted to try. If I have problems mounting them like you had then I might just run tubes. I have had tires blown off the rim while riding and its not run. Didn't fall either time but was riding on bare rim until I stopped. It was an intense tire that blew off for me.
 

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brent878 said:
It was an intense tire that blew off for me.
Ask the 29er guys what are good tires. You'll find most have not had issues with Stan's rims. I ran a 26er SB8 a couple season ago converted just fine.

Intense is officially "not recommended" on the Stan's website.

dodger's issue is unique and something is up with his set up (from out of spec rims? to already stretched beads?)

P
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
The Maxxis Minion and Panaracer Rampage were brand spanking new.

New Trail Bears went on fine; but a previously mounted Trail Bear was loose and blew off.

Agree 100%, I was quite skeptical of a bead that loose and that skepticism proved valid.

In the countless tires I've converted in the past 7 years they've all been quite tight. I happen to think the Flow's diameter is just a bit undersized. I'm not bagging on them, glad they work for some folks but my experience is what it is Flows are no longer in my future.
 

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Don't think I missed it, but what PSi did you have the tyres at? As I said earlier onmy 29er Flows I have had ASOLUTELY NO ISSUES running Nevegals, Rampages, Ignitors, Crossmarks, Racing Ralphs (other than they suck), Ardents, XC A/T, XR1s, MudX.

Brent, I think you'll be safe with those tyres, although I think I remember reading of some having issues with the SB8s. All you need to remember is Stans recomended max tyre pressure is 40 PSI, go higher and you're likely to blow the tyre off the rim.

dodger said:
The Maxxis Minion and Panaracer Rampage were brand spanking new.

New Trail Bears went on fine; but a previously mounted Trail Bear was loose and blew off.

Agree 100%, I was quite skeptical of a bead that loose and that skepticism proved valid.

In the countless tires I've converted in the past 7 years they've all been quite tight. I happen to think the Flow's diameter is just a bit undersized. I'm not bagging on them, glad they work for some folks but my experience is what it is Flows are no longer in my future.
 

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I have the GEAX UST tires mounted on FLOW rims. No issues,.. no rim strips, setup just like the site recommends a UST tire should be. BTW,.. I'm 235lbs and it's a MACH429. AZ has big rocks and some longer drops, no issues yet.
 

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dodger said:
I'm not bagging on them, glad they work for some folks but my experience is what it is Flows are no longer in my future.
Posting a thread and calling them "POS" is bagging. "Be prepared for tire blowoffs" ain't "glad they work for some folks."
Jus' sayin' :p
 

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dodger said:
The Maxxis Minion and Panaracer Rampage were brand spanking new.

New Trail Bears went on fine; but a previously mounted Trail Bear was loose and blew off.

Agree 100%, I was quite skeptical of a bead that loose and that skepticism proved valid.

In the countless tires I've converted in the past 7 years they've all been quite tight. I happen to think the Flow's diameter is just a bit undersized. I'm not bagging on them, glad they work for some folks but my experience is what it is Flows are no longer in my future.
Your first post calls them POS's. Yet your not bagging on them.

I agree something is up with your setup, not sure what, I am thinking defective tires, rim or installer (just kidding on the installer part!)

I have run Non UST Nevigals and CST Cheyene's on Arch's tubeless with no issues.
 
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