Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,869 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been itching to get my hands on some of Stans rims to lace up to my CK ISO hubs (not the lightest, I know, but I got 'em and they are OK...;) ). I'm going to replace the trusty old DT Competition spokes and brass nipples with either the DT Supercomps, or the Revolution 2.0 - 1.5's. I've heard the Supercomps are a wee bit more durable, but heavier as well. I'm at around 165-170 pounds now, so I think either would be adequate. 32 holes and 3X helps too, as I'm not trying to go ultra-lite, but would like to save some rotating mass but still have pretty stiff wheels!

So the build I'm looking at is this:

Stans rims
CK ISO hubs
DT revolution spoke (260mm)
DT 12mm or 14 mm alloy nipples

Whhel weights:
front=672 gm
rear= 812 gm

total = 1484 grams, pretty good and a pound (!) less than my X223's, DT Comp. spokes and brass nipples.

With the continenetal twister SS on the rear and explorer SS on the front (have run & liked 'em both so far!), seems like a very light, strong and potent race wheelset.... what do YOU think?
 

·
Code Burr
Joined
·
1,382 Posts
glenzx said:
I've been itching to get my hands on some of Stans rims to lace up to my CK ISO hubs (not the lightest, I know, but I got 'em and they are OK...;) ). I'm going to replace the trusty old DT Competition spokes and brass nipples with either the DT Supercomps, or the Revolution 2.0 - 1.5's. I've heard the Supercomps are a wee bit more durable, but heavier as well. I'm at around 165-170 pounds now, so I think either would be adequate. 32 holes and 3X helps too, as I'm not trying to go ultra-lite, but would like to save some rotating mass but still have pretty stiff wheels!

So the build I'm looking at is this:

Stans rims
CK ISO hubs
DT revolution spoke (260mm)
DT 12mm or 14 mm alloy nipples

Whhel weights:
front=672 gm
rear= 812 gm

total = 1484 grams, pretty good and a pound (!) less than my X223's, DT Comp. spokes and brass nipples.

With the continenetal twister SS on the rear and explorer SS on the front (have run & liked 'em both so far!), seems like a very light, strong and potent race wheelset.... what do YOU think?
Its hard for me to trust a 350g rim. I've had issues with 517's and 717s. They bend very easily under the unbearable weight of me. Who the heck is manufacturing those stans rims anyways? I would probably skip the DT revos for disc brakes and use the supercomps. I've always hated alloy nips but everyone else seems to swear by them and the extra 20g's they save.
 

·
Cleavage Of The Tetons
Joined
·
6,454 Posts
Stans rims? TOO F'IN EXPENSIVE!!!!!

And not only that, sh!tty Weld/seam quality. AND no eyelets, to boot. Weights kind of mis-represented as well..."Stan's tubeless" rims require a rimstrip,(making them not actually tubeless). This really just makes them an overhyped, cheap manufacture,eyeletless (usually available for $17, or less, no probs), crappy globby weld at the poorly finished seam, crap to build, soft rim. To add to the insult to the consumer, they are $100 RETAIL!!! WTF? Is "Stan" not making enough off of his rediculously overpriced latex solution (material cost: .90 cents)? Yes, these rims have a slightly deeper rim hook, so what. Major rim manu's could produce and extrude this rim for LESS than $5.00 per, easily. I challenge anyone to dispute this with any factual basis. Yeah, they are kinda light, but overall, VERY unimpressed. and that is after 20 years and over 1000 wheelbuilds. I hope that "Stan's" can get it together, I really do. but as for now, I find their rim offering to be a flat out INSULT to the core riding community. Over and out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
401 Posts
Stan's rims with King hubs

I've been using a set of Stan's rims with King hubs and DT Swiss Super Comp spokes for just over a month. No problems. Stan recommended his latest 370g rims for me since I'm 6'3" and weigh 205 lbs. I use his rim strip and and all that weighs 1550g. + a set of Kenda Karma DTC XC tires.
The tires leak a little bit of air over a couple days so I always check the pressure before riding. I can and have pumped up my tires with my floor pump with ease.
The Karmas are great tires but seem a little uncertain when going through deep sand
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
401 Posts
Stan's rims with King hubs

The other thing I might add is that Dave at Dave's Speed Dream Wheels is very positive about the Stan's rims and was willing to build me a set as he has for "about 30 other cutomers", according to Dave. He WILL NOT build any wheelset he thinks is poorly made. That convinced me of the mfgr quality of Stan's rims....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,869 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
cmv96 said:
I've been using a set of Stan's rims with King hubs and DT Swiss Super Comp spokes for just over a month. No problems. Stan recommended his latest 370g rims for me since I'm 6'3" and weigh 205 lbs. I use his rim strip and and all that weighs 1550g. + a set of Kenda Karma DTC XC tires.
The tires leak a little bit of air over a couple days so I always check the pressure before riding. I can and have pumped up my tires with my floor pump with ease.
The Karmas are great tires but seem a little uncertain when going through deep sand
Didn't even realize there was another rim "weight" he put out there.... interesting. I like the idea of the Karmas, but having one on the front during a race at Snowmass, CO led to hospitalization! Not 100% the tires fault, but they don't seem good on loose dry stuff, especially on a fast off-camber sweeper turns! :) Good to hear it's working out!

For the folks who responded less than positively, I should have been more clear in that this wheelset will be more for racing, not everyday abuse. IMO, every product will fail and if it can provide some usable time/life, it's worth it. MTBiking especially beats the crap out of parts, whether cheap or zoot, light or heavy.

As for the less-than-stellar weld joint, as i mentioned, that doesn't matter as much as a true wheel! I am a disk person, so rim surface imperfections don't matter.... the cst IS a bit absurd, but at least he includes the rim strips too!

As for 517's and 717's (and 317's) they don't seem to bend under MY unbearable weight, FWIW, and this part of the reason I'm considering a light race wheelset; I've dropped a sh!tload of weight! Worst case scenario is they don't work out, and I still have my nice hubs & spokes!

Thanks for all the feedback guys (and gals, if applicable!), keep it coming!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,175 Posts
I agree with some of your points but disagree with others.

The one set of Stan's rims that I have did have quality control issues and were over the specified weight, but I don't think this has been the norm.

The deeper beadlock is a very nice feature. Tires lock into place with authority on this rim but are still easy to change due to the relatively deep channel.

The rims are not soft. In fact, I think the material is harder than that used for Mavic 317. This may make it more brittle and prone to cracking, but I don't see any evidence that this is the case.

The lack of eyelets is not necessarily a bad thing. It does require more frequent truing during the initial settling in period as the nipples seat, but it saves weight and looks great in my opinion. I think more attention to detail on finishing the inside of the nipple holes would help reduce this. My 317's split at almost every single drive side nipple and that rim has eyelets.

I do agree that a larger manufacturer could probably mass produce this rim at a higher quality level and for less cost. They would probably just pocket the cost savings though.

It would be nice if Stan sold his rims without the rimstrip to reduce the cost. I prefer Eclipse rimstrips but still use Stan's latex solution. It would also be nice if the rims didn't have such a large hole drilled for the valve. Even using his rimstrips, once the valve tears off (they all do), it would be much easier get one of his seperate valves (or Eclipse) to seal if the hole were normal size or even a bit smaller for a nice tight fit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,869 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
B R H said:
I agree with some of your points but disagree with others.

The one set of Stan's rims that I have did have quality control issues and were over the specified weight, but I don't think this has been the norm.

The deeper beadlock is a very nice feature. Tires lock into place with authority on this rim but are still easy to change due to the relatively deep channel.

The rims are not soft. In fact, I think the material is harder than that used for Mavic 317. This may make it more brittle and prone to cracking, but I don't see any evidence that this is the case.

The lack of eyelets is not necessarily a bad thing. It does require more frequent truing during the initial settling in period as the nipples seat, but it saves weight and looks great in my opinion. I think more attention to detail on finishing the inside of the nipple holes would help reduce this. My 317's split at almost every single drive side nipple and that rim has eyelets.

I do agree that a larger manufacturer could probably mass produce this rim at a higher quality level and for less cost. They would probably just pocket the cost savings though.

It would be nice if Stan sold his rims without the rimstrip to reduce the cost. I prefer Eclipse rimstrips but still use Stan's latex solution. It would also be nice if the rims didn't have such a large hole drilled for the valve. Even using his rimstrips, once the valve tears off (they all do), it would be much easier get one of his seperate valves (or Eclipse) to seal if the hole were normal size or even a bit smaller for a nice tight fit.
Excellent points. What are the eclipse strips like? I have had decent luck with 20" presta tubes as strips, by installing them, then slittling them & having them "roll" off the edges of the rim, then install tire & goop, then trim excess. Forms an awesome seal, and I'd imagine with the more pronounced hook of stans rim, it'd be solid. (thanks CJ in Tucson!)

I've also talked with a bike shop fella that has been sealing his regular old rims with a couple layers of tape (first reinforced with packing then sealed with electrical [also mentioned here somewhere]) then installing a Mavic UST valve, and relying on the sealant to close the gap between rim and tire bead.... he's had good luck, but I'd think a strip to aid sealing between beads on the tire is a good idea.... never mind the fact the rims come with Stans removeable core presta valves anyhow!

I also agree with you on the eyelet issues.... as a decent intermediate wheel builder, I have no problem with tensioning & truing a set of wheel over the initial few weeks, provided the rim is straight and round to start with! I too like the eyelet-less appearance, FWIW.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,175 Posts
Eclipse rimstrips are very different from Stan's. Eclipse are made from an almost clear sort of vinyl rubber and a molded to fit some rims exactly. There is also the universal version that fits many other rims, including Stan's. It would fit better if it were 1-2 mm wider though. Stan's rim is wider than most cross country rims. The Eclipse strips have a ridge that forms an inner beadlock to keep tires from burping from side loads. I have yet to have a tire burp with Eclipse but I did have that happen once with Stan's (probably due to too low of pressure though). I have many many more miles (literally thousands) on the Eclipse strips but Stan's would only last a few months at best and then the valve would tear off. The Eclipse valve is seperate which makes using a tube much easier. Just remove the valve and put the tube in -- no slimy messy rimstrip to try to pack up. The rimstrip is actually stuck to the rim using thin double-sided tape making it a semi-permanant part of the rim. It can be easily removed if needed and the tape leaves almost no glue. Also, the sealant doesn't stick to the Eclipse strips like it does to black rubber strips (homemade or Stan's). There's really no comparison. One is an obviously engineered solution while the other is a refined version of your tube method and that's it.

I've read quite a few reports of people being successful with the taping method but I've never tried it. Well, I did just to see it work, but never really rode the wheel that way. I feel more secure with the inner bead lock. Also, the Eclipse valve has a larger internal diameter than Stan's too. However, this is still a problem area with either system. The valves still plug with sealant and have to be cleaned occassionally. I would like to see a "mega-presta" valve that would allow me to use a Schraeder size pump head, but still use the presta style innards except with bigger openings. This would make inflation easier and reduce clogging not to mention that I could use the same pump for everything including air shocks in a pinch!

I suppose eyelets would theoretically spread the spoke tension load over a wider surface area, but the spoke holes have to be larger to accomodate them and I doubt they really do a great job spreading the load anyway. Just be sure to use a good grease on the nipple seats and threads and remember to check the trueness and retension after a few rides, and I think they'll be fine. I let mine go far too long (months) before I checked them and they went way out of true. I didn't notice because I was running discs and only checked because I felt them wobble at high speed!

One of the rims I got was not round! I really should have sent it back, but I had already spent too much time removing the gobs of weld from the beadlock area. The wheel has a permanent hop at the seam that can't be eliminated. No rims are perfect, but this one should have been sent back. I don't think this is normal though.

I will buy another set soon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,869 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
B R H said:
Eclipse rimstrips are very different from Stan's. Eclipse are made from an almost clear sort of vinyl rubber and a molded to fit some rims exactly. There is also the universal version that fits many other rims, including Stan's. It would fit better if it were 1-2 mm wider though. Stan's rim is wider than most cross country rims. The Eclipse strips have a ridge that forms an inner beadlock to keep tires from burping from side loads. I have yet to have a tire burp with Eclipse but I did have that happen once with Stan's (probably due to too low of pressure though). I have many many more miles (literally thousands) on the Eclipse strips but Stan's would only last a few months at best and then the valve would tear off. The Eclipse valve is seperate which makes using a tube much easier. Just remove the valve and put the tube in -- no slimy messy rimstrip to try to pack up. The rimstrip is actually stuck to the rim using thin double-sided tape making it a semi-permanant part of the rim. It can be easily removed if needed and the tape leaves almost no glue. Also, the sealant doesn't stick to the Eclipse strips like it does to black rubber strips (homemade or Stan's). There's really no comparison. One is an obviously engineered solution while the other is a refined version of your tube method and that's it.

I've read quite a few reports of people being successful with the taping method but I've never tried it. Well, I did just to see it work, but never really rode the wheel that way. I feel more secure with the inner bead lock. Also, the Eclipse valve has a larger internal diameter than Stan's too. However, this is still a problem area with either system. The valves still plug with sealant and have to be cleaned occassionally. I would like to see a "mega-presta" valve that would allow me to use a Schraeder size pump head, but still use the presta style innards except with bigger openings. This would make inflation easier and reduce clogging not to mention that I could use the same pump for everything including air shocks in a pinch!

I suppose eyelets would theoretically spread the spoke tension load over a wider surface area, but the spoke holes have to be larger to accomodate them and I doubt they really do a great job spreading the load anyway. Just be sure to use a good grease on the nipple seats and threads and remember to check the trueness and retension after a few rides, and I think they'll be fine. I let mine go far too long (months) before I checked them and they went way out of true. I didn't notice because I was running discs and only checked because I felt them wobble at high speed!

One of the rims I got was not round! I really should have sent it back, but I had already spent too much time removing the gobs of weld from the beadlock area. The wheel has a permanent hop at the seam that can't be eliminated. No rims are perfect, but this one should have been sent back. I don't think this is normal though.

I will buy another set soon.
Thanks again for the thorough response BRH! I'll look into the Eclipse strips then, as the valve removal/emergency (race) tube replacement sounds worth it on it's own!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
790 Posts
dt rims

I have one of stans v-brake wheelsets. It is holding up well at 28h f and 32h rear with skinny revos. I am at 165 lbs. I had to re-true-tension the wheels and re-dish as they were off quite a bit. Also I never could get the spoke tension as even as I would like it to be-maybe because the rims did not start out round? Anyway they are light and holding up but I do not like the overall quality surface finish etc. Maybe this will not matter for disc wheels but in my mind overall quality is an indication of ultimate strength and stiffness. Also to build a really good wheel it is neccessary to start with a round and true rim.
My new disc wheelset is going to be: dtxr4.1d 28 hole on dt 240s centerlock with sapim cx-rays. I bet I will end up with a stiffer wheel due to the better rim and spokes eventhough there will be less of them. This combo will end up weighing just over 1500 gms. I'll post a test report after I build and get some time on them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,869 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Almost ready....

Well, I took the plunge and am having the wheelset built up with Stans 355 rims and a custome mix of spokes, per the builders spec.'s. The front disk side and rear drive side get stronger spokes, while the front non-disk side get REALLY light spokes, and then the rear disk side gets a 'medium' spoke. All DT revo's, I believe, just using the different butts, as it were ;-)

I'll be sure to post the wheels as soon as I get 'em (this tuesday the 21st of Sep.) and the real weights and build stats. I'll be putting them through a sort of "trial by fire" at the NORBA National hampionship race next weekend, so they better work!
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top