[FoxOverFence]

We were out there this past weekend and saw all these white ribbons tied around trees everywhere. They don't seem to signify any lines for race purposes as some are just on bushes and trees in random places, along the road, in the brush.

Any idea what these are? They are freakin' me out. I don't want anything bad to happen to our area.

 

[sgsrider]

well, considering that the flow park is actually an approved park by the city, i doubt anything will happen to the jumps themselves. could be left over from and or prepping for yet another mini dh? there was one out there like two weeks ago. that would be my guess. also, the parks dept may marking older trees that need to be either cut down or trimmed.

 

[FoxOverFence]

Hum, I didn't know that it was formally approved. :skep: But would be good of course.

We thought about that but if it was a race course, then it follows no known trail as the ribbons are on bushes and trees off track. And if marking trees to come down, well the ribbons are on bushes as well so that seems kinda weird. And we were thinking trees that are flagged usually are done with colored (orange or pink) ribbons, not white. The ribbons seem to only be in the vicinity of the Flow Park, we didn't see any on our way to there.

 

[Skookum]

i know the jumps are not formally approved by anyone. They exist because they do, along with all the trails south of the fence. That fence is the border of the City of Seatac and Des Moines.

i don't know what the ribbons mean.

i do know that they are moving forward with extending 509 freeway which is slated to run through the northern portion of the trail system. i've also heard that they want to turn the whole area into golf course, eventually. But that's just rumor.

The freeway is very likely to occur.

 

[juice]

Thank goodness we're building Duthie.

 

[GFreak]

White ribbons tied around trees typically means the property has been surveyed. I would guess that the trees that have the white ribbon around them are 8" and greater in diameter which signifies they are considered "significant trees". I'm guessing you can expect to see a "Land Use Action Application" sign posted in the next 2-3 months.

 

[Skookum]

Thank goodness we're building Duthie.

This must be an official unofficial statement in saying i'm onto something....

This stuff has been in the works for years, but i haven't really taken the time to find out officially. And i know the area over the years has been slated for so many different things. It was supposed to be a soccer field, a dirtbike track, then it was supposed to be a veteran cemetary....

i think it really sucks that it's going to become golf course. Golf is such a vast waste of land, probably the worst sport ever made for screwing up good parcels of land. But i don't play so i'm bias.

 

[GFreak]

i've also heard that they want to turn the whole area into golf course, eventually. But that's just rumor.

The freeway is very likely to occur.

I've been known to be wrong before but I find it hard to believe it will be a golf course since it's not the highest and best use for the land. Of course this all depends upon the zoning.

After looking at King County's GIS webpage the proposed R/W for the future hwy 509 is approximately 350ft wide which is pretty wide. As such I would believe the ribbons around the trees are related to the hwy 509 extension.

 

[Skookum]

I've known to be wrong before but I find it hard to believe it will be a golf course since it's not the highest and best use for the land. Of this all depends upon the zoning.

After looking at King County's GIS webpage the proposed R/W for the future hwy 509 is approximately 350ft wide which is pretty wide. As such I would believe the ribbons around the trees are related to the hwy 509 extension.

Hmm you are probably right. Looked up that map and it does show the proposed route, and indeed it essentially runs right down 15th.

This route is different than the mailer i received years back. They showed the route running through Tyee Golf Course, up the hill where they were to eventually tie it into I-5 inbetween the 200th St. Exit and the Kent Des Moines Exit. That route would have taken out the bmx jumps, but wouldn't have touched much of the trail network.

But this route will effectively take just about everything out. And the route veers right through the heart of Des Moines and ends on Kent Des Moines Way near 15th. Weird place to end it.... Really doesn't do much for traffic imo, except maybe give people who live in Des Moines a quicker commute downtown, maybe 5-10 minutes...

But the 509 has been built in chunks, maybe this is yet another chunk and they're wanting to extend it into Kent or Federal Way in 2050....

 

[GFreak]

Hmm you are probably right. Looked up that map and it does show the proposed route, and indeed it essentially runs right down 15th.

This route is different than the mailer i received years back. They showed the route running through Tyee Golf Course, up the hill where they were to eventually tie it into I-5 inbetween the 200th St. Exit and the Kent Des Moines Exit. That route would have taken out the bmx jumps, but wouldn't have touched much of the trail network.

But this route will effectively take just about everything out. And the route veers right through the heart of Des Moines and ends on Kent Des Moines Way near 15th. Weird place to end it.... Really doesn't do much for traffic imo, except maybe give people who live in Des Moines a quicker commute downtown, maybe 5-10 minutes...

But the 509 has been built in chunks, maybe this is yet another chunk and they're wanting to extend it into Kent or Federal Way in 2050....

If I had to guess I think you are right. WSDOT has probably altered 509's alignment for the reasons you stated, hence the additional amount of survey work.

I understand that since WSDOT is a public entity it can issue it's own SEPA and EIS but surprised this has flown under the radar without much public notice of the alterations.

The last point I want to make about this topic is this is probably the best chance mountain bikers have to bring SST to become a legitimate MTB park. In order to do this people will have to monitor and show up at Des Moinces Council to voice their concerns that a public recreational area used by many will be negatively impacted. Through this process interested parties can work with the council and WSDOT to carve an area dedicated for a flow park.

I have to believe that the Council knows what this area is being used for and although not officially supported. It has not been torn down like many other areas thus a certain level of support for this type of use exists within the City Council. Just my 2 cents.

 

[juice]

Another angle is to ask them to carve out some mitigation money (out of the $100millions) so we could build a smaller, but legit, park there.

$300k is about the baseline to build a small skills parks.
$500k would be better, and would allow us to build a nice park (it's a tough site, crappy trees and lots of invasives)
$700k would be even better - build lots of great stuff.

These are pretty small numbers when compared to a freeway expansion.

I can't be invovled in this project. I'm now just a regular volunteer and am up to my eyeballs in other volunteer projects. But just throwing out these numbers so folks can get in front of the review boards a make a fuss.

If we make enough noise, we can make something happen. Not sure what - we need to be flexible - but something decent could come from this ugly patch of pavement they want to build.

 

[Skookum]

I have to believe that the Council knows what this area is being used for and although not officially supported. It has not been torn down like many other areas thus a certain level of support for this type of use exists within the City Council. Just my 2 cents.

On the surface, that makes sense, but it's an uphill battle that takes person/persons to invest time/effort. But there are many people that like the flow park, and even more people enjoy the XC races, so one might have success rallying the troops.

The history of the how all the trails wound up coming to be doesn't really typify a koom-bay-yah scenerio. All the same the past is the past, and there may be potential.

What i do know is that Evergreen is attempting to build Duthie to cater to both needs. And the city of Kent and Evergreen have been in talks about various areas being turned into a Park. i'm not certain which specific parcel or parcels the 2 parties are looking at. But i did scout the areas a while back, and from my observation there is some pretty good potential on some of the lands.

So this is stuff that should be considered before charging forward....

 

[Skookum]

it's a tough site, crappy trees and lots of invasives

Yup, most all of the trails run through old properties. The only reason i know the area so well is that this is my old hood that i grew up in. i played down there when i was kid, rode my 10 speed on trails trying to keep up with all my buddies that were lucky to get bmx bikes....

Anyways there's a ton of sticker bushes and ivy, and alot of deciduous trees. Also something to consider is that if we do get a park there, you're looking at effectively re-doing almost all the trails to bring them up to a respectable level. i shouldn't discredit the work that was done, but in many ways they have issues. i'm speaking of ALL the trails, the XC, the jumps and the DH.... If you get a park out there, you will have to re-do alot.

 

[GFreak]

On the surface, that makes sense, but it's an uphill battle that takes person/persons to invest time/effort. But there are many people that like the flow park, and even more people enjoy the XC races, so one might have success rallying the troops.

The history of the how all the trails wound up coming to be doesn't really typify a koom-bay-yah scenerio. All the same the past is the past, and there may be potential.

What i do know is that Evergreen is attempting to build Duthie to cater to both needs. And the city of Kent and Evergreen have been in talks about various areas being turned into a Park. i'm not certain which specific parcel or parcels the 2 parties are looking at. But i did scout the areas a while back, and from my observation there is some pretty good potential on some of the lands.

So this is stuff that should be considered before charging forward....

I agree that it will take a dedicated individual(s) to take this to task but I do not necessarily think it's an uphill battle. I think one can prove there is a level of City support for this use hence you do not have to convince them of much. In this particular case you are not having to paint the City a mental picture of what a mountain bike park is or if it will be used like other parks. All that needs to be done is get the flow park incorporated into the master plan of the area. Summing this up, I would say you just need to put together a team with varying professional skill sets, a strategy with tactics and move forward.

As for other projects that have yet to materialize such as Kent I would say SST is the best bet for success. Infrastructure for what needs to be accomplished is already there, a ton of volunteers already exist to build and the potential for grant money exists.

On a slightly different note I never ride here but find it out others that frequent SST are not speaking up here?

 

[Skookum]

On a slightly different note I never ride here but find it out others that frequent SST are not speaking up here?

THAT'S the uphill battle, who's going to carry the torch.

Went down there today and talked to surveyors. They were tight lipped on the whole thing, but i managed to trick an admission that they are flagging the trees in order to clear them. It really looks to me that they are looking to wipe out the flow park and a few XC trails that are nearby.

If you want my opinion they are clearing and creating a staging area for making a bridge over the creek.

 

[GFreak]

Yikes since I do not frequent that spot I should get down there soon!

 

[Skookum]

Yikes since I do not frequent that spot I should get down there soon!

Here's the map....

http://www.metrokc.gov/ftp/gis/Web/VMC/transportation/RoadIndexMaps/2007cris_3a.pdf

Yah it does NOT look good. We are both full of it because we don't have any official word. But we've built a fairly plausible outcome here....

 

[mwestra2]

I was out there with Skooks and Josh making some measurements for the future Duthie flowpark... According to the King County parcel viewer, the future SR509 is slated to go right through the top (east) half of the flowpark. The rest of the flowpark area is jointly owned by the Port of Seattle, city of Des Moines and the city of SeaTac. The land south of the fence (creekside) is part of the Des Moines Creek park. That's just what the parcel viewer and linked property docs say... I have no idea how up-to-date it all is.

 

[Skookum]

http://bonesovermetal.com/syndrome/2008/12/16/rumors-about-sst-getting-torn-down/

 

[sgsrider]

thanks for posting the link to syndrome skooks. andy and i might have to draft a petition to keep the park. or at least part of it.