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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Is there any reason that the XX1 X Horizon RD could not be run on a Sram 10 speed cassette, say a 11-36?

The movement of the RD is controled just by the shifter, right? So 10 speed shifters could be used? Or do I misunderstand the process?

The jockey pulleys have longer teeth like the chainrings have, but don't know if that would matter.

Which chain to use is also a question, as I would not be using XX1 chainrings.

The X Horizin RD presents a much more 'tucked in' profile against the cassette than other RDs, which is an attractive feature to fully enclose the drivetrain for sand/beach riding use.

Anyone have any thoughts?
 

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I would guess that the actuation would be different...as in there would be a different amount of cable pull to make a change compared to 10sp. It was certainly different from 9 to 10 and the 10sp couldn't be used on 9sp cassettes
 

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If you want the tucked in profile, you could go Shimano. They've been doing it for a while with the Shadow design. That's Deore and up. I really like the design, and another plus is that the B screw actually works.

I think SRAM is still using 1:1 actuation for everything...
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I would guess that the actuation would be different...as in there would be a different amount of cable pull to make a change compared to 10sp. It was certainly different from 9 to 10 and the 10sp couldn't be used on 9sp cassettes
Thanks for the reply.

If my memory is corect...the spacing between the cogs is the same...just one cog wider?

The 42T cog was spaced/dished to the left while the 10T cog has been moved to the right? If I am correct on this, it is why I am thinking that it just may work.
 

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Is there any reason that the XX1 X Horizon RD could not be run on a Sram 10 speed cassette, say a 11-36?

The movement of the RD is controled just by the shifter, right? So 10 speed shifters could be used? Or do I misunderstand the process?

The jockey pulleys have longer teeth like the chainrings have, but don't know if that would matter.

Which chain to use is also a question, as I would not be using XX1 chainrings.

The X Horizin RD presents a much more 'tucked in' profile against the cassette than other RDs, which is an attractive feature to fully enclose the drivetrain for sand/beach riding use.

Anyone have any thoughts?
It does not look to be any lower profile than other SRAM RDs (from a SRAM video)
Bicycle part Mode of transport Bicycle tire Bicycle accessory Bicycle wheel rim

I have not seen any mention from SRAM about the cable pull geometry of the XX1 RD and shifters. Even if it is the same for the RD as the 10-sp RDs, they will not admit any compatibility.

Even so, the slope of the XX1 movement is designed for the 10-42 cassette and a single chainring. performance will suffer on a smaller range cassette and/or with multiple crankrings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
shiggy Even if it is the same for the RD as the 10-sp RDs said:
Sounds like a great track to the money pile. Lawyers...

Thanks Shiggy!

As per your posted photo...the bottom pully looks to be up and back from a 'normal' RD position on the same cog. Sram has a drawing of the two side by side on their site.

The XX1 cassette is 10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32-36-42, compare that to 11-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32-36...the one tooth jump from 11 to 12 could be a problem? As for the 36 to 42...lock that side out?

I supose that until the system falls into the hands of someone willing to play around with what may be possible, questions like this and others can not be answeared. Too bad that Sram does/has not gone in this direction. I believe that they have some great concepts in this system...but the 'system' as packaged is of no use to me.
 

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I've been wondering this myself too. I'd love to replace my XO rear derailleur on my 1x10 with this just to give it a shot. I just have no use for more gears (and weight) than my 11-36 has.
 

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Sounds like a great track to the money pile. Lawyers...

Thanks Shiggy!

As per your posted photo...the bottom pully looks to be up and back from a 'normal' RD position on the same cog. Sram has a drawing of the two side by side on their site.

The XX1 cassette is 10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32-36-42, compare that to 11-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32-36...the one tooth jump from 11 to 12 could be a problem? As for the 36 to 42...lock that side out?

I supose that until the system falls into the hands of someone willing to play around with what may be possible, questions like this and others can not be answeared. Too bad that Sram does/has not gone in this direction. I believe that they have some great concepts in this system...but the 'system' as packaged is of no use to me.
The position of the cage will depend entirely on the cage and chain length, you could get that from a long cage 9sp derailleur if you chose to.
The cage geometry that shiggy is referring to is the diagonal angle the derailleur travels on to be able to sit just below every cog uniformly. The wider the spread the more the angle. As XX1 is designed for a wider spread it may not work on a 10sp cassette so smoothly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
To put things another way...wait for a 10 speed horizontal parallelogram RD to come out?

Only make the 'system' compatable with any size 'normal' chainrings. I could get by without the chain retention feature of the front chainrings of the XX1 system.

That way those who desired a 2X setup...could?

Thanks for the help guys.
 

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To put things another way...wait for a 10 speed horizontal parallelogram RD to come out?

Only make the 'system' compatable with any size 'normal' chainrings. I could get by without the chain retention feature of the front chainrings of the XX1 system.

That way those who desired a 2X setup...could?

Thanks for the help guys.
The X11 design with the cage pivot near the center of the cage relies mostly on chain length change to have the top pulley track the cog slope. Using more than one chainring changes the position of the top pulley.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks mbco1975...most informative vid/article I have seen yet.
 

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The cage geometry that shiggy is referring to is the diagonal angle the derailleur travels on to be able to sit just below every cog uniformly. The wider the spread the more the angle. As XX1 is designed for a wider spread it may not work on a 10sp cassette so smoothly.
Anybody experimented with a 10-speed cassette with an XX1 drivetrain? I'm ordering an XX1 drivetrain today, but my wheels with an XX1 hub will not be available for over a month. So, in the meantime, I'm hoping I can use a 10-speed cassette with the rest of the XX1 group, obviously locking out the 42 cog with the limit screw. I know it's not ideal, but hopefully it will allow me to start training on my new XC race bike sooner rather than later.
 

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The problem is the same problem with using a regular SRAM 10spd rear derailleur on a road cassette or DH cassette. Specialized had a problem with the 2012 Demo 8 II's. The came with a short cage X.O rear derailleur but the lowest gear on the cassette was only a 26T. An 11-26 tooth has a different "slope" than an 11-36 tooth. Most SRAM mtb rear derailleurs are designed for 11/12 through 32/36. If you deviate from that than the standard rear D won't properly track the cassette. So if you adjust the rear D so the top pulley is the correct distance from the lowest/largest rear gear then by the time you get to the 3 highest gears, the pulley is bouncing off of the cassette. Inversely if you try to adjust it in the higher/smaller gears to eliminate that, by the time you get to your 3 or 4 lowest/biggest gears the top pulley and chain are so far away from the cassette that it won't hardly shift. That's why SRAM makes an X.0 DH rear derailleur. A SRAM road rear D designed for smaller low gears will do the same thing. I experienced this frustration first hand building up a new Demo 8 II for one of the GROM Team riders last year.

So I'm guessing trying to use the XX1 rear D on a 10spd cassette will yield the same or worse results. 1 or 2 teeth difference isn't as a big an issue but when it's 1 tooth difference on the high range and 6 teeth on the low range, you're not going to be happy with the performance at all and could possibly cause damage to those nice, new, really flippin expensive components!
 
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