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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,
First, are these two component classes considered equal? Or is SRAM X.9 the Deore XT's "equal?"
I'm looking to upgrade my base Deore Rear Derailleur and am considering an X.7 or X.9 (with shifters) vs. a Deore XT Rear.

Any insights or real world performance comparisons out there? :confused:
 

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X.7 would be roughly equivalent to LX and X.9 to XT. Performance is pretty much equal among the respective lower and higher end parts but the higher end ones tend to have better construction (less plastic) on some parts.
 

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The XT is compatible with your current shifters. The LX is just as nice. The SRAM is better than either, but you will also have to buy new shifters.

The differences are only very slight, given equal maintenance.

Go with the LX.
 

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SRAM is solid ...

For less trouble, go with SRAM. The 1:1 actuation ratio is less prone to error than the 2:1 of the Shimano. SRAM is a "set it and forget it" system.
 

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Harky
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willtsmith_nwi said:
For less trouble, go with SRAM. The 1:1 actuation ratio is less prone to error than the 2:1 of the Shimano. SRAM is a "set it and forget it" system.
I agree w/ willsmith...I've run the XT and XTR (2 differrent bikes)..both worked OK for awhile but were prone to ghost shifting that could not be cured with adjustment...I gave up!
I changed over to X9 and X0 and have run them for an equivalent time (over a year) and no problems!
 

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I've been using 8 speed x.7 triggers with a x.9 rear derailleur (11-32t) and a XT front derailleur (24t/34t/bash) w/o problems. Love it so far. Shifts precisely and quickly.
 

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stretch and crud ...

harky said:
I agree w/ willsmith...I've run the XT and XTR (2 differrent bikes)..both worked OK for awhile but were prone to ghost shifting that could not be cured with adjustment...I gave up!
I changed over to X9 and X0 and have run them for an equivalent time (over a year) and no problems!
Cables stretch and crud gets in the lines. Sometimes the insides of the cable housings will corrode and snag the cable. In all situations SRAM 1:1 actuation ratio will have exactly half the index error as an equivalent Shimano system.

There is nothing wrong with Shimano. In fact, for "smoothness" of shifting you probably cannot do better than Rapid Rise / low normal derailleurs for the sheer fact that you're not allowed to force a downshift. SRAM is more robust ... PERIOD. If you're tired of messing with your shifters barrel adjuster, get and X series shifter/derailleur combo and forget it.
 

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question is first, what are you upgrading - shifters or derailleurs? I use sram x7 with XT front and sram 8 speed rear shifter (its the 2:1 sram make for using with shimano) with XT rear and its really good.I like the sram shifting and cant really see a diff at the other end and didnt want to chuck good XT derailleurs. THe rocket or attack (cant remember which I have) is xt level, the other lx.
 

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pspycho said:
Hi,
First, are these two component classes considered equal? Or is SRAM X.9 the Deore XT's "equal?"
I'm looking to upgrade my base Deore Rear Derailleur and am considering an X.7 or X.9 (with shifters) vs. a Deore XT Rear.

Any insights or real world performance comparisons out there? :confused:
Upgrading the Deore rear derailleur to XT is a good move. Functionally the XT is superior to the LX and more robust.

Now XT vs X.7 or X.9 is a hot debate and fueled by the following:

Claims that Shimano:
  1. ghost shifts
  2. does not remain set
  3. has a higher margin of error in set up

Unfortunately what many users don;t know is that all of these problems are easily rectifiable but your LBS wants to sell you new parts don't they.

Ghost shifts are usually due to too short a cable housing , bent rear derailleur hanger or even a sticky chain.

setting of shimano derailleurs is pretty easy. It all revolves around makin sure there are no kinks in the wire cable anywhere and making sure everything is clean. too many times i have seen cables picked off the floor and then refitted into your brand new housing

The set up namrgin of error is a moot point really because the drift is not related to the cable pull but to the degree of wear in the housing, cable stretch. Settling of the cable ends will affect the adjustment as well but this has nothng to do with cable pull since the pull ratio related to movement in the shift mechanism and resultant derailleur movement. So unless the shifter is wearing out, Actuation ration has nothing to do with setting drift.
Shimano may experience more settling due to wear inside the loop in the housing. If you're using Shimano SP41 housing and full length then the wear takes a long time to occur.

It ypically only replace outer housings once a year and in that time the adjustment requires maybe 2 or 3 tweaks.

I found that my SRAM shifters required the same amount of tweaking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for all of the well versed replies. I'm leaning towards XTR as I can pick one up on sale for $72.00 (Non Rapid-Rise) model. Next task will be to swap out my Alivio Shift/Brake Lever combo (and a new wheelset...).
 

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Nice price ... but ...

pspycho said:
Thanks for all of the well versed replies. I'm leaning towards XTR as I can pick one up on sale for $72.00 (Non Rapid-Rise) model. Next task will be to swap out my Alivio Shift/Brake Lever combo (and a new wheelset...).
$72.00 is an excellent bargain for an XTR derailleur. Unfortunately, it probably will not improve your shifting at all without better shifters. The indexing is in the shifters. When in doubt, you should be using higher end shifters than derailleurs.

For a little more, you could get both an X.7 derailleur and shifters at Pricepoint for $90.

http://pricepoint.com/detail/12862-...ger-Shifter--w_-X.7-Rear-Derailleur-COMBO.htm
http://pricepoint.com/detail/13492-...rty-Shifters-w_-X.7-Rear-Derailleur-COMBO.htm

An X.9 setup will cost you about $120.
http://pricepoint.com/detail/13076-...rty-Shifters-w_-X.9-Rear-Derailleur-COMBO.htm

As long as you're switching, you might as well shift to a better standard (1:1 actuation ration).
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
willtsmith_nwi said:
$72.00 is an excellent bargain for an XTR derailleur. Unfortunately, it probably will not improve your shifting at all without better shifters. The indexing is in the shifters. When in doubt, you should be using higher end shifters than derailleurs.

For a little more, you could get both an X.7 derailleur and shifters at Pricepoint for $90.

An X.9 setup will cost you about $120.

As long as you're switching, you might as well shift to a better standard (1:1 actuation ration).
Thanks - I shop PricePoint all the time. Good recommendations, but I want trigger shift vs. grip.

Last question: Assuming I purchase new Shifters (better indexing), I can purchase either a new XTR Rear (Non Rapid Rise) for $68.00 or a new SRAM X.9 for $64.00. Any ideas/recommendations?
 

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Priceoint has both ...

pspycho said:
Thanks - I shop PricePoint all the time. Good recommendations, but I want trigger shift vs. grip.

Last question: Assuming I purchase new Shifters (better indexing), I can purchase either a new XTR Rear (Non Rapid Rise) for $68.00 or a new SRAM X.9 for $64.00. Any ideas/recommendations?
Pricepoint has x.9 triggers with x.9 derailleur for $134.
http://pricepoint.com/detail/12826-...ger-Shifters-w_-X.9-Rear-Derailleur-COMBO.htm

Personally, I would skip on the XTR as Shimanos are all 2:1 acutation ratio AND the Shimano springs are REALLY weak. They all have major chain slap. I am biased toward SRAM for shifting and that is what I recommend. If you asked about cranks I would recommend Shimano over Truvativ (SRAM).

An XTR will not give you "smoother" shifting unless it is Rapid Rise. This is because the Rapid Rise derailleur does not allow you to "force" the chain onto larger cogs as you can with a traditional derailleur. In other words, on a high-normal derailleur you can bypass the shifting ramps if you REALLY need to do a hard downshift.

Beyond this, the "smoothness" of the shift has to do with the cassette, the chain, the b-tension adjustment and your shifting technique. Any derailleur will do. The differences come in when it comes to issues of toughness, weight and resistance in the jockey wheels.

There is no doubt that XTR is tough and light. But a non rapid rise derailleur will not help with the "smoothness" of your shift. I have heard tell that Shimano cassettes teamed with Shimano chains are the "smoothest". But you make certain sacrifices in the versatility of your drivetrain to accomplish this.

For the record, I'm partial to Shimano cassettes as they're tougher. I personally feel the SRAM cassettes shift smoother. I like SRAM chains because each one comes with a powerlink.
 

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The new Truvativ OCT cranks look promising for sure.


But I rode the SRAM x.7 stuff from 2003 and it was great. I still have it, used it for a week then my bike broke. I'm waiting to get a geared bike to use it on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks.

I ordered an SRAM X.9 on Wed. and a new PG-970 Cassette (might as well upgrade to 9 speed). I'll be ordering a new set of trigger shifters and brake levers (Avid 7s) next week.
 

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For clarification:

Sram shifters that work with shimano rear derrailures include
-rocket series
-attack series

Sram shifters that will NOT work with shimano rear derrailures include
-X7 trigger and twist
-X9 trigger and twist
-XO trigger and twist

For recommendation:

Personal preference is to run sram X series over shimano. I have used both extensively. Gripshift for shimano, shimano triggers, shimano dual control, X7 triggers, X9 twisters, XO twisters.

The learning curve for X series triggers in almost instantaneous when comming from shimano triggers.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
RESULTS!!

I did the upgrade Tues. night (the 26th) - all by my lonesome...
New X.9 Rear Derailleur, X.7 Trigger Shifters, and Avid Ti SD Levers. What a difference from the base Deore Derailleur. Shifts are crisp and I love the new set-up. Have to get used to shifting with my thumbs only, but it's not a problem. I also like being able to downshift 1, 2, 3, or more gears at a time - very cool. Bike's really dialed in now and I'm really enjoying it.
 

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I have seen pictures of them just not in person. My guess is you push one lever to go to larger gears like shimano, and press upward on the other lever to go to smaller gears? is there any big differences in model years?
 
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