[Disco_Inferno]

Pretty cool:

http://www.angryasian.com/images/Which_would_you_rather_ride_sm1.mov

 

[Rufudufus]

Dang! Any idea which models of deraillers those are?

 

[MikeDee]

Pretty cool:

http://www.angryasian.com/images/Which_would_you_rather_ride_sm1.mov

I don't think this video really means anything.

 

[kebasha]

I think it's very clear.
Shimano->Noise
Sram->Silence
So simple...

 

[Hecubus]

Very amusing video except it really proves nothing. The rearward pivoting on the shimano has no effect whatsoever on performance and the lack of pivoting on the Sram likely leads to the oh so common broken knuckle/main bolt they are known for.

 

[m4dj4ck]

well i came across this video few months ago and i was using xtr rear derail(RD-M960) that time. At first i was so impressed until i nearly sold off my xtr drivetrain and get sram xo instead. But, having some financial issues, i sticked to xtr until now. Of course, i hate the noise when the body of derail hit the chainstay but it wasnt that bad at all. You will get used to it soon. I had a friend who is using sram xo components and taunting me to change to sram as well. And so, we went to plenty of XC races already and guess what? His XO keep on skipping the chain and eventually, the chain fell into cassette during the race! You cant lost any time during race. While my xtr, despite the damn noises, was shifting smoothly(using deore shifter) and no chainslap/chain-skipping at all. While you guys may say that my friend's bike wasnt set-up correctly, i think it the same for xtr as well. It is just the noise issue. The noise hitting chainstay doesnt mean the derail will break out. Even if, i think shimano already having some trouble since the first month they release this derailleur.

 

[Dwayne]

His XO keep on skipping the chain and eventually, the chain fell into cassette during the race! You cant lost any time during race. While my xtr, despite the damn noises, was shifting smoothly(using deore shifter) and no chainslap/chain-skipping at all. While you guys may say that my friend's bike wasnt set-up correctly, i think it the same for xtr as well.

No, really, your friend's bike wasn't set up correctly. Your chain shouldn't fall between your spokes and your cassette, regardless of what derailleur you're running. Because of this, I don't understand how you're saying that XTR is better than X0.

 

[Call_me_Clyde]

Dwayne's right

Most shifting/skipping problems are a result of incorrect setup, bent/broken parts (derailleur, hanger) or cable stretch. Once a drivetrain is dialled in correctly, it should shift correctly. Shimano and SRAM both make very good drive train components. It's a matter of which brand you prefer.

Bob

 

[Hecubus]

well i came across this video few months ago and i was using xtr rear derail(RD-M960) that time. At first i was so impressed until i nearly sold off my xtr drivetrain and get sram xo instead. But, having some financial issues, i sticked to xtr until now. Of course, i hate the noise when the body of derail hit the chainstay but it wasnt that bad at all. You will get used to it soon. I had a friend who is using sram xo components and taunting me to change to sram as well. And so, we went to plenty of XC races already and guess what? His XO keep on skipping the chain and eventually, the chain fell into cassette during the race! You cant lost any time during race. While my xtr, despite the damn noises, was shifting smoothly(using deore shifter) and no chainslap/chain-skipping at all. While you guys may say that my friend's bike wasnt set-up correctly, i think it the same for xtr as well. It is just the noise issue. The noise hitting chainstay doesnt mean the derail will break out. Even if, i think shimano already having some trouble since the first month they release this derailleur.

Your friends derrailleur was incorrectly adjusted. Nevertheless you make the point a lot of people don't get. Both systems work outstandingly well when they are correctly setup. Sram setups are not impervious to problems and malfunction just as bad when they are not setup correctly or when there are other dricetrain problems along the line.

While I find this video amusing to see how the derailleurs behave it doesn't show any problem caused as a result of the jumping around. On bikes with very low horst links the shimano's will tap the chainstay in the very smallest cogs. They bring a rubber bumper to quiet this which has no effect on how it behaves. Its at most a small annoyance if you don't run the bumper on while riding very small cogs.

Having no pivot in that direction can cause more problems that what it solves. The derailleur will not pivot to absorb any impacts leading to broken hanger or derailleur. If you're not carefull about cutting your chain at just the right length on FS bikes with growing chainstays you can rip off the derrailleur on big gear combo's since the derrailleur can't pivot forward to take the slack. It also makes quick wheels changes with disc brakes more difficult.

 

[What&son]

Is that video suposed to help sram or shimano?

Becouse I like much more to see the shimano derailleur moving than the sram so still... it´s going to snap at the b-pivot, you know. And the shimano isn´t hitting the chainstay at all...not in this bike, at least.

 

[Kona0197]

One thing to think about guys - a blade of grass or some mud dosen't mess up a XO setup. Shimano setups are more prone to ghost shifting and harder to keep perfectly setup from what I've read. Of course I don't believe everything I read.

And yes I use Shimano. Low end Shimano. It works great. Shimano Alivio works great on a 9 speed setup.

I wish either Shimano or SRAM would bring back high end 8 speed setups.

 

[m4dj4ck]

well i came across this video few months ago and i was using xtr rear derail(RD-M960) that time. At first i was so impressed until i nearly sold off my xtr drivetrain and get sram xo instead. But, having some financial issues, i sticked to xtr until now. Of course, i hate the noise when the body of derail hit the chainstay but it wasnt that bad at all. You will get used to it soon. I had a friend who is using sram xo components and taunting me to change to sram as well. And so, we went to plenty of XC races already and guess what? His XO keep on skipping the chain and eventually, the chain fell into cassette during the race! You cant lost any time during race. While my xtr, despite the damn noises, was shifting smoothly(using deore shifter) and no chainslap/chain-skipping at all. While you guys may say that my friend's bike wasnt set-up correctly, i think it the same for xtr as well. It is just the noise issue. The noise hitting chainstay doesnt mean the derail will break out. Even if, i think shimano already having some trouble since the first month they release this derailleur.

yeah..but maybe i didnt point it right. what i mean is my friend's bike wasnt set up correctly and also, the shifting problem will happens if xtr isnt set up correctly as well.

 

[Hecubus]

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=116364

For those that don't follow here regularly the amount of reports on SRAM derrailleurs breaking like this is overwhelminghly higher than any other. Sram derrailleurs have suffered from this design flaw since they carried the Sachs name. That main pivot serves a very important purpose.

 

[Call_me_Clyde]

X.9 JRA Breakage

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=116364

For those that don't follow here regularly the amount of reports on SRAM derrailleurs breaking like this is overwhelminghly higher than any other. Sram derrailleurs have suffered from this design flaw since they carried the Sachs name. That main pivot serves a very important purpose.

As an SRAM user, I've followed this phenomenon with a degree of skepticism. I'm not denying that they break, it's obvious that they do. I just have a hard time believing that there is no outside force responsible for the breakage. Too many people say the same thing...JRA and POW!, my derailleur exploded. My simplistic mind tells me that something within the realm of physics or engineering has to be at work here. You seem to hit on something with this pivot issue. Can you explain what it is about the difference between the SRAM design and the Shimano design that makes the SRAM prone to breakage? I'm not being confrontational, just looking for an explanation.

Thanks in advance.

Bob

 

[Hecubus]

As an SRAM user, I've followed this phenomenon with a degree of skepticism. I'm not denying that they break, it's obvious that they do. I just have a hard time believing that there is no outside force responsible for the breakage. Too many people say the same thing...JRA and POW!, my derailleur exploded. My simplistic mind tells me that something within the realm of physics or engineering has to be at work here. You seem to hit on something with this pivot issue. Can you explain what it is about the difference between the SRAM design and the Shimano design that makes the SRAM prone to breakage? I'm not being confrontational, just looking for an explanation.

Thanks in advance.

Bob

Lol! I know I risk a flame war by bringing these issues up. I started to come up with that suspicion several years ago long before the X series existed. I used to ride Sram for some time many years ago but it was really a some buddies of mines experience where I started to pick up on the issue. They managed to break 5 Sram derailleurs JRA withing the space of less than 2 years. 3 of them broken exactly the same way, around the main bolt. All of them were the original 9.0's and 9.0SL's. The other two were X.0's broken at the knuckle which is another well known failure point. At races I've seen even more of them with again the same problem. Thats just from my personal observations. Then when I come here I keep seeing more consistant reports of EXACTLY the same problem with them. The amount of reports on the issue is disproportionate to any other derailleur kind. Its obvious there has to be a common design issue causing this. I certainly have seen my share of broken Shimano derrailleurs. Cracked parallelograms, broken parallelogram pin pivots, exploded cages, mangled and twisted main bodies but never anything that indicates a consistant design issue. Almost always damage caused by violent impact with the ground or large sticks. The numbers of them broken also seems to be much smaller in comparisin even though they outnumber the sram parts like 3 to 1.

Personally I strongly believe it the lack of a pivot there is largely to blame for a lot the constant breaking issues. It means the derailleur can't pivot in any direction under loads or impacts and is just weakened to the point it just snaps. What possible benefit is there to not having a pivot there. It keeps things quiet on a very specific kind of frame design? A derrailleur can move down and up all it wants. Its the sideplay which needs to be kept in check.

I also saw an interesting derrailleur hanger breakage issue once. Every time he took a drop the hanger would snap off. To keep the chain tense he was using the big ring with bigger cogs in the rear. Turns out the chain was a tad short and when the chainstay grew through the travel it would apparently tear off the hanger. It didn't happen with the Shimano one because it was able to pivot farther forward and release more chain slack.

IMO Shimano derrailleurs are still overall better designed, have higher quality construction and meterials. I'll stick to good old fashioned forged metal over plastic, faux carbon and cast metal.

 

[Call_me_Clyde]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Gald we didn't don the flamethrowers, too! I'll have to look at my LX and X7 derailleurs and look for the difference in design and the missing pivot on the X7.
Bob