[digev]

Now that they have a wireless drivetrain and seatpost, would it be crazy to imagine them make wireless brakes?

Or maybe it’s a straight No-No for safety reasons?

Because I see many advantages (in no specific order):

- power modulation could be tweaked however we like (not dictated by the lever mechanical and fluid laws ... not as much)
- you could easily choose to run them moto style or not in just 1 click (cool for shops, rentals, demos)
- no durites / hoses management
- super easy to bleed at the caliper level only
- would not even need any fluid/oil then ?! Is there a way convert that to something else?
- no more cables running around, none if everything is wireless on your bike
- could we then re-think the whole idea of the lever shape, position, even the purpose of it if we don’t need to apply any mechanical pressure? Why not integrate it into the grips so no more more stretching and less arms pumps?

It’s just what happens when I let my mind roam free but jokes aside, I’m interested about what you think about this? Pure fantasy? Doable? The future of brakes?

 

[Cotharyus]

Having spent years messing with R/C cars/trucks/planes/multis - it would be super easy to do this, really. A set of good strong servos and some BB7's or Spykes. Pull them control pod out of a radio - I mean, it's some work, but feasible. I won't detail too much because anyone who can follow what I'm talking about already has enough of an overview to be able to imagine the situation in their heads. Now....

The flip side of that is I've spent enough time with these radio systems to see all sorts of interesting glitches. The brakes (both) failing when I need them most is actually the least of my worries with a wireless system. What, in fact, worries me most is an undesired application glitch. Imagine you're dropping into a hight speed turn and the front brake glitches to near full on for a split second. You're done.

That said, I have not used any of the wireless stuff on the bike market right now. I know that over the years the radio technology has gotten better and better in R/C, both in terms of range, power usage, and being less prone to such glitches. But I'd want to put a huge number of miles on something with wireless shifting and see all that happen without a glitch before I contemplated wireless brakes. For what it's worth, a bleed-free fluid system should be possible and require less power from the wireless motor to activate than a purely mechanical system.

 

[HerrKaLeu]

Yepp, rely on a battery to save your life....

You also need to spend money on R and D to get very good haptic feedback.

Between shifter, dropper and brakes you need to keep 5 or 6 batteries charged. That will simplify life....

 

[digev]

Alright, thanks for your input! So it’s doable BUT scary right?

I’d love to see some prototypes surely we can go around the safety issues, somehow...

 

[petercarm]

I think I'd trust these guys to do it first: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20070013704.pdf

 

[matt.s67]

That's a big nope, **** that.

 

[digev]

That's a big nope, **** that.

Hahahaha C'mon let's try it!

Yeah coming from NASA I'd be a bit more relaxed using them! For sure.

 

[digev]

Wireless Brake Controllers already exist for trailers ... it does work ... but again if it fails you still have brakes on your truck/SUV. Surely there’s a way to make it safe for bikes!

 

[farfromovin]

That’s gonna be a big NO for safety reasons. The cost of failure is literally death.

 

[acedeuce802]

If the majority of bike component makers can't even come up with a reliable foundation brake, I would not trust any of them with a brake-by-wire. There's just not enough money and R&D in the MTB industry to develop a system safe enough to use while going 30 mph down a mountain.

 

[Shark]

Sram can't even make a reliable hydraulic brake, you think they can make a wireless one?? Lol.
No freaking way.

 

[digev]

Kind of true but it could made by another (more reliable?) company such as Trickstuff OR again NASA. LOL

Side note: My Codes (old and new) have been super reliable for years!

 

[isleblue65]

A mechanical safety system isn’t that difficult to design.

Similar to air brakes on Semi tractor trailers, where air releases the brakes by pressurizing a diaphragm and releasing the spring - If you lose air, the brakes engage. In bike brakes, you would have a servo release a spring. Power always has to be applied to release the brakes. The downside is that you would have to figure out a gradual modulation so brakes don’t lock up if your battery dies, throwing you over the bars or worse, and you would want a manual disengage option so you could roll the bike back to the trailhead.




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[Mr Pig]

Now that they have a wireless drivetrain and seatpost, would it be crazy to imagine them make wireless brakes?

Yes. Too stupid for words. I could explain it, but doing so would make me dumber.

 

[digev]

A mechanical safety system isn't that difficult to design.

Similar to air brakes on Semi tractor trailers, where air releases the brakes by pressurizing a diaphragm and releasing the spring - If you lose air, the brakes engage. In bike brakes, you would have a servo release a spring. Power always has to be applied to release the brakes. The downside is that you would have to figure out a gradual modulation so brakes don't lock up if your battery dies.

Yes, the always «*on*» mode to disengage the brake would be very power intensive I guess and drain a battery very quickly ... it's definitely the safest option though!

 

[Lone Rager]

IMO, it's possible and could be designed to be adequately safe with suitable fail-safe design and redundancy. I don't think it would be practical or cost effective. You'd need a pretty sizable battery...unless it was regenerative electric braking....Hmmmm...maybe we're onto something.

 

[digev]

Regenerative braking like Tesla does ... yep that's a very good idea indeed

OK let's say the power source is sorted? What else needs attention?

 

[biff55]

mtb brakes needing battery power to work sounds a great idea - said no-one ever.....

 

[HerrKaLeu]

Brakes require quite some power. It isn't like the wireless dropper post that just opens the release and the body and spring move the saddle. Look into a car that has the ABS pump and brake booster. There are safe ways to control electronically. Like airplanes that all fly by wire and don't have cables anymore. But they are not wireless, and are expensive to meet safety requirements. And they have an on-board generator to keep systems running.

Could one design a wireless system being reliable? Probably. But it would be heavier, more bulky, requires more maintenance and would be extremely expensive. and all that to just not have the hydraulic lines?

 

[Harold]

Could one design a wireless system being reliable? Probably. But it would be heavier, more bulky, requires more maintenance and would be extremely expensive. and all that to just not have the hydraulic lines?

I don't want electronic shifting because of the need to keep batteries charged.

Electronic brakes are a non-starter for me because of the issues listed above.

Sometimes, just because you "can" do something, doesn't mean you "should" do that thing, or that the thing offers any benefits.