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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey everyone

Need some advice please

I've had the same problem with two different bikes. Old bike: 2006 26" Jamis Dragon hardtail with WTB Exiwolf tires with tubes. New bike: 2007 29" Salsa Dos Niner softail with IRC Mythos tires with tubes (wheels on new bike are DT 240s laced to Salsa Delgado Race rims). Both bikes are XL size. I'm 6'3" and 170 lbs. I live in Oregon. So in the summer everything is really dry and then pretty wet the rest of the year. I have found with both of these set-ups that I have to have more PSI than I would like in the rear tire b/c if I don't the rear wheel feels squirmy...especially in the summer when it's dry. I'm guessing I have to fill it around 35 PSI where I would prefer around 28 or 30. I was talking to a friend and he advised that it might be b/c both of these tires are fairly light and have pretty weak sidewalls. Would a tire wiith a beefier sidewall help this problem? If so, any recommendations on a decent all-arounder?

Thanks!! ~matt f
 

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mforness3000 said:
Hey everyone

Need some advice please

I've had the same problem with two different bikes. Old bike: 2006 26" Jamis Dragon hardtail with WTB Exiwolf tires with tubes. New bike: 2007 29" Salsa Dos Niner softail with IRC Mythos tires with tubes (wheels on new bike are DT 240s laced to Salsa Delgado Race rims). Both bikes are XL size. I'm 6'3" and 170 lbs. I live in Oregon. So in the summer everything is really dry and then pretty wet the rest of the year. I have found with both of these set-ups that I have to have more PSI than I would like in the rear tire b/c if I don't the rear wheel feels squirmy...especially in the summer when it's dry. I'm guessing I have to fill it around 35 PSI where I would prefer around 28 or 30. I was talking to a friend and he advised that it might be b/c both of these tires are fairly light and have pretty weak sidewalls. Would a tire wiith a beefier sidewall help this problem? If so, any recommendations on a decent all-arounder?

Thanks!! ~matt f
Thin casings do not mean tire sidewalks are "weak."

If you went to a heavier casing tire you would have to run even lower pressures to get the same ride feel as your current tires.

Different tires may make feel better for you. And it may be a tread design issue. The narrowish rims can also have a negative affect on tire squirm.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
thanks for the response

anyone else?

problem: squirminess feeling on rear tire when pressure is run below perhaps 35psi

bike: salsa dos niner; XL size

wheels: dtswiss 240s, salsa delgado race rims

tires: IRC Mythos, 2.1s - currently using tubes

me: 6'3 170lbs

I'd like a wider tire (perhaps 2.2. or 2.25) that I can run at a lower pressure (hopefully around 25psi) that does not feel squirly at that low presure...

any advice appreciated!
 

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mforness3000 said:
anyone else?

problem: squirminess feeling on rear tire when pressure is run below perhaps 35psi

bike: salsa dos niner; XL size

wheels: dtswiss 240s, salsa delgado race rims

tires: IRC Mythos, 2.1s - currently using tubes

me: 6'3 170lbs

I'd like a wider tire (perhaps 2.2. or 2.25) that I can run at a lower pressure (hopefully around 25psi) that does not feel squirly at that low presure...

any advice appreciated!
Wider tire at lower pressure on the same rim = even more squirm. Really no way around that, even if you did find a tire with a stiffer sidewall (which would feel less supple).
 

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Not sure why your having this issue when using tubes but I've noticed that I can't run as low a pressure in my Conti MK's tubeless as I did with tubes, I get the "squirmy" feeling then....I figured the tubes were giving it extra sidewall support
 

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farrisw1 said:
Not sure why your having this issue when using tubes but I've noticed that I can't run as low a pressure in my Conti MK's tubeless as I did with tubes, I get the "squirmy" feeling then....I figured the tubes were giving it extra sidewall support
I have had the same results
 

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For dry conditions I run a RK 2.2 or anything with low knob height it's the weak knobs which are causing the squirm, MK's squirmed like hell to me ever at 40psi+. On the rear that is.


Try a Race King 2.2, Aspen 2.25, Racing Ralph 2.25 maybe a Tiger Claw also.
 

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mforness3000 said:
Hey everyone

Need some advice please

I've had the same problem with two different bikes. Old bike: 2006 26" Jamis Dragon hardtail with WTB Exiwolf tires with tubes. New bike: 2007 29" Salsa Dos Niner softail with IRC Mythos tires with tubes (wheels on new bike are DT 240s laced to Salsa Delgado Race rims). Both bikes are XL size. I'm 6'3" and 170 lbs. I live in Oregon. So in the summer everything is really dry and then pretty wet the rest of the year. I have found with both of these set-ups that I have to have more PSI than I would like in the rear tire b/c if I don't the rear wheel feels squirmy...especially in the summer when it's dry. I'm guessing I have to fill it around 35 PSI where I would prefer around 28 or 30. I was talking to a friend and he advised that it might be b/c both of these tires are fairly light and have pretty weak sidewalls. Would a tire wiith a beefier sidewall help this problem? If so, any recommendations on a decent all-arounder?

Thanks!! ~matt f
I foound the mythos to be a fairly poor tire....and yes a little squirmy..

In the end I run a pressure adequate to prevent tire squirm...

Try a Maxxis Lust tire if you want a "stiff" sidewall...

I find the Ignitor to be a "non Squirmy" tire even without the Lust.

I am surprised you require so much pressure to prevent squirm...
 

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jeffscott said:
I foound the mythos to be a fairly poor tire....and yes a little squirmy..

In the end I run a pressure adequate to prevent tire squirm...

Try a Maxxis Lust tire if you want a "stiff" sidewall...

I find the Ignitor to be a "non Squirmy" tire even without the Lust.

I am surprised you require so much pressure to prevent squirm...
No 29er LUST tires.
 

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Downside to 29er to me is, they squirm more, I've got a 21mm internal Halo Freedom rim on the front so not thin and I'd run more pressure than in a 26" wheel with a larger sized tire.

Haven't tried any other rims, so could be the rim I'll add.

I've tried a lot of tyres :)

Running a Ardent 2.4 currently with the new EXO casing and might be able to run low enough, but random squirm issues hoping it just needs more running in.

Dunno, if the Ardent 2.25's will have the EXO casing though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
thanks everyone for the advice and comments

I've gathered that there are a lot of different variables that go into how a tire/wheel feels and how low you can run the pressure...

that being said, I can't afford to try out several different tires......

how about the geax saguaro or interloc xc firePro for the rear?...

any advice comments appreciated
 

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Just tried a Vredestein Tiger Claw 2.4 tonight, reduced to £15 from £40, really fast rolling, really comfortable handles the trails with a little bit of mud perfectly tonight, light and working well on 17mm int rims.
 

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I don't ride tires based off of a certain PSI, I ride them based off of feel...if they're squirmy they don't feel right and need more air...if they're too hard they need less air. Simple, easy.
 

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trboxman said:
I don't ride tires based off of a certain PSI, I ride them based off of feel...if they're squirmy they don't feel right and need more air...if they're too hard they need less air. Simple, easy.
I have also had tires with tallish, soft knobs that are squirmy when the pressure is too high.

But yes, I generally argee with you.
 

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Shiggy, I dont think he would have to run a lower pressure with a stiffer sidewall to get the same ride. Suggesting something like that seems kinda funny to me. If you buy a tire with a stiffer sidewall, you shouldnt be attempting to make it feel like a tire with a thinner sidewall. They will ride differently and have a completely separate set of good and bad attributes.

The change from an S-works Eskar 2.3 (thin and lightweight) to an Armadillo Eskar 2.3 (thick casing stronger sidewall) was interesting. After a few rides, I had come to realize that the same pressure I used in my S-works was exactly what I needed in the Armadillo (Tubeless at f21psi/r24psi im 140lb on a 6x6 AM bike). The stronger/thicker/stiffer sidewall really gave me extraordinary confidence in rough turns and off camber turns. The only negative change in performance was with climbing. The tread is great and hooks up well, but it just cant quite conform at low speeds like the S-works could. The durometer of the rubber is the same between the s-works and the armadillo. But just like with the s-works, I would have smashed the rim in the rough had I run a lower pressure. The weight was just noticeable, but really not as bad as I expected. Im running a set of the enduro Industry Nine's that really allow for good feedback of the trail and tire. Overall I like the ride that the Armadillo offers better than the S-works. I ride aggressively and many trails in my area have climbs that can be swallowed up easily if you have enough momentum so slow speed climbing bite isnt my biggest concern.

I really like specialized tires. I have them on all of my bikes. Fast trak 2.0's on the xc hardtail, fast trak 2.2's on the SS, and Armadillo Eskars 2.3 on the 6x6 AM bike. I have come to appreciate the balanced feel that running the same tire front and rear offers.
 

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SmilMick said:
Shiggy, I dont think he would have to run a lower pressure with a stiffer sidewall to get the same ride. Suggesting something like that seems kinda funny to me. If you buy a tire with a stiffer sidewall, you shouldnt be attempting to make it feel like a tire with a thinner sidewall. They will ride differently and have a completely separate set of good and bad attributes.

The change from an S-works Eskar 2.3 (thin and lightweight) to an Armadillo Eskar 2.3 (thick casing stronger sidewall) was interesting. After a few rides, I had come to realize that the same pressure I used in my S-works was exactly what I needed in the Armadillo (Tubeless at f21psi/r24psi im 140lb on a 6x6 AM bike). The stronger/thicker/stiffer sidewall really gave me extraordinary confidence in rough turns and off camber turns. The only negative change in performance was with climbing. The tread is great and hooks up well, but it just cant quite conform at low speeds like the S-works could. The durometer of the rubber is the same between the s-works and the armadillo. But just like with the s-works, I would have smashed the rim in the rough had I run a lower pressure. The weight was just noticeable, but really not as bad as I expected. Im running a set of the enduro Industry Nine's that really allow for good feedback of the trail and tire. Overall I like the ride that the Armadillo offers better than the S-works. I ride aggressively and many trails in my area have climbs that can be swallowed up easily if you have enough momentum so slow speed climbing bite isnt my biggest concern.

I really like specialized tires. I have them on all of my bikes. Fast trak 2.0's on the xc hardtail, fast trak 2.2's on the SS, and Armadillo Eskars 2.3 on the 6x6 AM bike. I have come to appreciate the balanced feel that running the same tire front and rear offers.
You are ignoring that the OP is wanting to use lower pressures than he is currently.

Your example tells me you were using too little pressure in the S-Works tire to get the handling feel you refer.
 
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