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Lone Wolf McQuade
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
... Can someone please tell me in English, no technical jargin, what the red hex nut does to the SPV shocks while riding?. Does the the shock ride stiffer or softer with the red hex all the way out or in? Does it have anything to do with travel or is it just for SAG?? I ride a 04 Manitou and need help tuning for a stiffer XC feel.

Any feedback besides, "Don't buy Manitou", is appreciated. What's up with this thing....can't....figure....it.....out....red....knobs....aahhahhhhhh....:madman:

And the friggin air shock pump:madmax: . Why is it that when you pump in your proper pressure, as you unscrew your pump, you lose 20lbs..:confused: Sorry 'bout ranting.
 

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IMO, turning the red screw in increases progression, bottom out prevention. As far as pressure loss, it is due to air flowing from chamber to the pump when you attach it once again. SPV chamber is small that's why even this small flow of air causes pressure drop.
 

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noMAD man
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On the Manitou and Progressive SPV rear shocks, that red knob affects how the shock bottoms out...or in other words the last part of the shock's travel. On my 5th E coils and Manitou 4-Way Air shocks, I didn't really notice any small bump compliance effect by changing that red volume knob...as long as you kept the SPV chamber pressure at the proper level. It's a great feature because you can run main chamber pressures and SPV pressures at a level to give you the bump compliance you prefer and still have decent bottomout control. Turning the knob into the piggyback (clockwise) decreases volume and slows down bottomout. Backing the knob out (counterclockwise) increases volume and allows the last part of the travel to compress more quickly...good or bad depending on your needs or preference at any given time. Your model requires a 16mm socket to adjust, but you can get a no-tools knob from Manitou for easier adjustment. Later models already have this hands-adjustable knob.

I have one of those 4-Way Air shocks like yours on a Bullit, and I think it's an outstanding shock. We've seen excellent service out of that shock through our shop on different bikes, and in many applications it's better than the Fox DHX Air, which I also have. I'm also preparing to install an Evolver ISX-6 on a Nomad. IMO Manitou rear shocks are as good or better than many of the other brands available, depending on your bike and the kind of suspension design you're matching it to.

On your pump and the air pressure issue, unless your schrader attachment on your pump is worn out or damaged, you shouldn't be getting any notable pressure loss when disconnecting the valve. Also, you may not realize that when you reconnect a shock pump back up to a shock or piggyback, you lose a notable amount of pressure because the pump chamber is filling with the air from your shock/piggyback everytime you hook it back up. The guage will show a reduced amount of pressure from when you filled it up. This is more noticeable on the SPV chamber and very small main chambered air shocks.
 

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Lone Wolf McQuade
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the explinations....

.... What's the rule with your weight/air pressure in the SPV and large can? The SPV manual says the pressure range is 50-175 psi but doesn't say what it is for the large can. Would it be the same? Is this pressure ideal for both? I think I need to visit my LBS to better understand. Thanks for all the info. :thumbsup:
 

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noMAD man
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The SPV chamber is usually rated for 50psi minimum to 175psi maximum. The big or main air chamber is good for up to 300psi. I don't think there's any "rule" for setup outside of these minimum/maximum warnings because different bike suspension designs require some notably different pressures to perform correctly. What bike do have this on, and how much do you weigh? From setup issues at the shop, maybe I can at least give you a good starting point.
 

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Lone Wolf McQuade
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well...

... let's see here. I'm riding an 04 5.5 with the Swinger 4 and a Minute 2. I weigh approx. 185, thanks to Ben & Jerrys "The Gobfather" ice cream, but lets say an even 200lbs with my pack. What's your rule if thumb for both the SPV and main can PSI at 200lbs?

I love XC trails, so I keep the sag at 25, but once and awhile will tag along with the "huckers" for a downhill ride in Brianhead UT. I can really feel the difference if I go beyond 25, the bike feels spongy and heavy :nono: . I want the set up to feel stiff (XC), but don't want all the bumps....am I asking to much here :confused: . Thanks again for your thoughts.
 

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noMAD man
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beagle, did that 5.5 come with that shock? I ask because the SPV shocks are not generally the best match for VPP bikes. You're gonna get some differing opinions on this, but the VPP design needs very little stable platform for pedaling efficiency. Of course, there is personal preference, and it sounds like you want more of an "XC feel", so perhaps you'll be alright. While talking to Manitou a couple of weeks ago, the tech guy even recommended not using an SPV shock on my Nomad...which I wasn't considering anyway...as the inherent pedaling characteristics of the VPP on my Nomad would produce an overly harsh ride. I was ordering an Evolver ISX-6 which has no SPV platform. I've experimented with a couple of shocks on my Nomad, and we've had other VPP bikes through the shop obviously, and I have to agree that VPP bikes need little if any pedal platform...unless you're really looking for a stiffer ultra-XC ride. That's why the Fox Propedal shocks have often seemed to be a better choice for VPP bikes than Progressive and Manitou SPV shocks. The SPV is way stronger pedal influence than the Propedal IMO. This is apparently why Manitou is offering the Evolver series in a non-SPV design. The ISX-6 has no SPV, and the ISX-4 is available with or without SPV. Sounds like Manitou is recognizing the pedaling efficient designs like VPP, DW, Maestro and others.

On your 5.5 I'd use the minimum 50psi in the SPV chamber with the red chamber nut turned all the way out (counterclockwise) to start with. Set the main air chamber pressure to achieve the sag you need and go test. If you have bottomout issues, experiment with juggling a little more main chamber pressure and turning in the red bottomout chamber nut until you get the balance that you prefer. Try not to rely on the bottomout chamber anymore than you have to but definitely use it as needed to control bottomout if you're happy with your main air chamber sag and mid-stroke performance. Yeah, this a somewhat complicated shock compared to some "dumb" shocks that are available, but you should be able to get almost exactly what you want across a broader range of use. Oh...don't forget that as you turn in that red bottomout knob, the air pressure in the SPV increases, so you should check your SPV pressure and reset accordingly each time you change that bottomout knob. With your VPP design, I'd be surprised if you need more than the minimum 50psi SPV pressure...but it's there to raise if you need it. Remeber that SPV pressure is what affects pedaling platform and mainly that initial small bump compliance. On a VPP bike, you shouldn't need lots of pedal platform tuned into that shock or you'll get a harsh ride.
 

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I'm about the same weight as you, and the method I'd use is a trail&error - set pressure in main chamber to 180 psi, in SPV chamber to 100 PSI. Than check SAG, adjust pressure until you reach desired 25%. Than ride and pay attention to pedal bob and small bump compliance. Adjust SPV pressure more for less bob, less for more small bump sensitivity.
 

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The following is extracted from the Intense Owners Manual:

"Suspension Sag and Shock Settings \\
It is essential that bikes with VPP linkage have the correct shock and sag settings in order to achieve optimal ride quality and performance. VPP suspension has an optimal spot in the wheel path that offers the rider the absolute best ride characteristics. Each INTENSE frame requires a specific percentage of sag, be sure
to reference the model specification page for
the appropriate percentage.

Caution: You will damage your bike and your shock If you run your air pressure too low.
If you bottom out the shock on a regular basis, you are under sprung and will damage the
shock and the Frame.

NOTE: These are suggested guidelines to aide you in proper fit for a Fox RP3 air or
Manitou Swinger air shocks. With the Manitou Swinger use 50psi in the SPV valve. For any other adjustments please consult your shock user manual.
Sag \\ 25-30%"

At the risk of telling you the obvious, set your sag so that the shock compresses between the two marks on the piggy back reservoir.

Ronnie.

P.S. TNC,

My ISX-6 is underway as we speak. I've received a tracking number and it should be here middle of next week.:D That is the exact same Swinger it will be replacing on my 5point5.
 

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noMAD man
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Good info, Ronnie. Hey, my SPV/VPP piggyback pressure was pretty close, eh?...LOL! You know...you'll probably get your shock going on your bike before I will. I called those guys on Thur. and Fri. and still didn't get anything but some hem-hawing. Jimminey Christmas...just make the freakin' things...LOL! Or send me some 8mm versions, and I think I can make my own. We're having an ice storm right now anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter at the moment. But it's Texas...we'll be riding again by Friday...LOL!
 

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TNC said:
Good info, Ronnie. Hey, my SPV/VPP piggyback pressure was pretty close, eh?...LOL! You know...you'll probably get your shock going on your bike before I will. I called those guys on Thur. and Fri. and still didn't get anything but some hem-hawing. Jimminey Christmas...just make the freakin' things...LOL! Or send me some 8mm versions, and I think I can make my own. We're having an ice storm right now anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter at the moment. But it's Texas...we'll be riding again by Friday...LOL!
I've been waiting for it about a month and we still have not seen any snow or low temperatures here in Jersey. It's been great weather for riding. The shock will get installed on Thursday and we'll have a blizzard on Friday!:rolleyes:

Ronnie.
 
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