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high pivot witchcraft
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Please pardon my ignorance but I just got an AXS drivetrain installed and, at the same time, reduced my ring by two teeth (to try to compensate for my sticky heavy Assegai/Dissector combo). Everything has been great except when torquing on the pedals while climbing through steep techy crap, I can hear a noise now coming from the rear wheel. It sounds like the spokes are maybe lightly rubbing against something. I’m having trouble describing the noise, but it seems to be spoke related.

I’m running We Are One first gen Insider rims. Sapim C-XRay spokes. Not that it matters but DT 240 hub running 36 tooth star ratchet.

Does anyone have any ideas? I am thinking about having someone look at my rear wheel and check the spoke tension (among other things) before I end up stranded in the middle of nowhere.

The wheels were purchased new in 2018, have a lot of miles on them, and have never been touched apart from changing the rim tape (seriously We Are One - packing tape?) and tire changes twice yearly.

Thanks.

*unrelated but other wheel trauma came yesterday when I burped my rear tire and tried to fill it trailside. I could not get air into it through the valve (Muc-Offs) using my pump or someone else’s who happened along. There appeared to be a sealant plug in the valve (which I have experienced before with Orange Seal). I turned the valve from about 1:00 to about 5:00, reseated the pump, and boom. All of a sudden, the air easily went past the valve and into the tire, no problem. Haven’t experienced that before (although I have had massive sealant plugs the odd time in my valve using Orange Seal). It didn’t sound like I blew a plug out. Maybe that rear wheel needs a solid exorcism.
 

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If it wasn’t making the noise before the drivetrain swap, it isn’t the spokes. Did you grease or antiseize the cassette splines? I would pull the cassette and make sure it is properly lubed and torqued. Also check drivetrain alignment, the derailler hangar, and the large cog limit.
 

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I've had this issue with bladed spokes. Over time the minute rubbing rubs off the finish at the cross until it's metal on metal and then they start creaking. My easy fix was to cut up a tube into little squares and slip them between the crosses. Noise gone.
 

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high pivot witchcraft
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
If it wasn’t making the noise before the drivetrain swap, it isn’t the spokes. Did you grease or antiseize the cassette splines? I would pull the cassette and make sure it is properly lubed and torqued. Also check drivetrain alignment, the derailler hangar, and the large cog limit.
I only got the upgrade kit. So controller and rear d (plus an extra battery). No new cassette. Sorry for the misleading initial post.
 

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A kind of grinding noise? When in the largest rear cog?

New chainring, old cassette and a new chain? Change the cassette, otherwise, the chain. Its likely one, or both, of those. Derailleur adjustment could be the cause too. Think they call it the B bolt, or A bolt ... adjusts the height of the top jockey wheel relative to the cassette (the largest cog is the one you adjust against).
 

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A kind of grinding noise? When in the largest rear cog?

New chainring, old cassette and a new chain? Change the cassette, otherwise, the chain. Its likely one, or both, of those. Derailleur adjustment could be the cause too. Think they call it the B bolt, or A bolt ... adjusts the height of the top jockey wheel relative to the cassette (the largest cog is the one you adjust against).
Since he didn’t replace the chain or cassette, I am leaning towards alignment or b tension. Assuming AXS is setup the same way as eagle, b tension should be set using the guide tool AT SAG!! Eagle is very sensitive to b tension adjustment and the druid has a fair amount of chain growth (about 10mm at sag) which will change the adjustment significantly from setting it with the suspension uncompressed.
 

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high pivot witchcraft
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
A kind of grinding noise? When in the largest rear cog?

New chainring, old cassette and a new chain? Change the cassette, otherwise, the chain. Its likely one, or both, of those. Derailleur adjustment could be the cause too. Think they call it the B bolt, or A bolt ... adjusts the height of the top jockey wheel relative to the cassette (the largest cog is the one you adjust against).
It’s more of a very delicate, soothing, metallic chiming noise, like the spokes are being very lightly pinged by something else metal. I’m having trouble describing the noise. It’s not all that irritating actually. To the contrary - it’s quite soothing amidst all the pain during lung busting, quad shredding ascents. It only happens when I am torquing as hard as I am capable of, and in the lowest gears. I am only concerned in case it’s a warning sign of worse things to come.

I was told by my LBS that the X01 cassette is pristine. But hey - maybe not. And maybe it’s not the spokes (although I still think it is).
 

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high pivot witchcraft
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Yes, it is obviously what I have described.
Thanks. I appreciate that each matter may be quite different, but in your case in particular, did you see this as more of an annoyance, or was it elevated to a wear issue that ought to be addressed?
 

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Ah, that sound. You can put some spray lube on the spokes at the point they cross, that should stop the noise.

Not sure on the long term solution, I never minded it too much ... normally other sounds were more dominant - from worn chain or whatever else I never washed/maintained.
 

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high pivot witchcraft
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Sonofa b! Out riding today, it was LOUD climbing. But it’s NOT how I described it above. Forget about wind chimes. It’s a loud spoke scraping noise that occurs with every pedal stroke. Way-0 way-0 way-0. Indeed, as suggested by some above, it sounds to me like I am flexing the wheel under torque, and the spokes are rubbing against each other where they cross cross. I have never had this happen before with any wheelset. And I have owned probably 2 dozen. Then again, I have never had bladed spokes either.

I have an old school, epic ridge ride planned tomorrow. 7800 feet at the summit. I do not want to get stranded out in the middle of nowhere. This is smack dab in the middle of bear country (including grizz).

Any further thoughts? As suggested above, I thought about lubing the spokes where they cross cross. I had no lube with me on the ride today though, and had to high tail it to my GF’s post ride. At least I could have seen if this was the cause of all the racket.

$hit. Any further thoughts would be appreciated.
 

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high pivot witchcraft
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Just make sure the spokes are properly tensioned. Then get an old tube and cut it into little squares. Slip it between the crosses. Mine have been there for over a year.
Thanks. Did yours sound like I described? Way-o way-o way-o.

I searched YT to see if I could find something, or even a similar noise to post, and shockingly to me at least, there was SFA on there.

Never had this happen before with any bike or wheelset. Bizarre.

And thank you for the suggestions. I will try the tube thing tomorrow morning before I leave for the ride.
 

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A drop of lube at the spoke crosses and where the nipple meets the rim and a quick test ride will either confirm or eliminate your suspicions. I really doubt it's the spokes but it would only take 5 minutes to find out one way or the other.
 

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high pivot witchcraft
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
A drop of lube at the spoke crosses and where the nipple meets the rim and a quick test ride will either confirm or eliminate your suspicions. I really doubt it's the spokes but it would only take 5 minutes to find out one way or the other.
Oh-oh. What would you speculate as being the likely cause, if you don’t mind me asking?
 

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Oh-oh. What would you speculate as being the likely cause, if you don’t mind me asking?

I'm not sure but diagnosing these things is a process of elimination. I would do what I suggested so you can either confirm your suspicions or move on to something else.
 

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If you've built a wheel you have destressed the wheel after tensioning the spokes to dish and true it. Sounds like what's happening here. You put the wheel under lateral stress when riding and the spokes move.
I'd do a destress with the air out of the tire. Then check the tension. I'd guess the non-drive side spoke tension is low. Like 85kgf. I'd like it at 95 or more. If you raise it you'll likely will have to up the drive side to keep the correct dish. Don't go past the rim manufacturers limit by much.

This guy tells you how to do stuff without a tension gauge. How To Build Bicycle Wheels the Easy Way - YouTube
 
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