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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am waiting on a 2006 Specialized FSR Stumpjumper Pro thats on order and this because after months of trying to buy a 2005 FSR S Works I wasn't having much sucess this lead to some research on the elusive M 5 Tubing that is the main selling point of the S Works frame ang found out that the catalog and web pages very carfully choose there words " M5 manipulated alloy DT with Transform monocoque TT" The Down Tube is the only tube on the entire bike that is M5 tubing the rest of the bike is the EXACT same tube set as the Pro !! one tube for $1000 thats great marketing hype ! At least after 45 minutes on the phone they ( Specialized tech support) did admitt this to be true ! And after another disapointing year of sales of the Epic, it entire line( even the base rim model) gets quote " M5 alloy fully manipulated frame" however that since they sell out of the FSR stumpy every year we only get one tube on no less than the S WORKS !! Must be some goooddd stuff that M5 tubing !
 

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His point is that Specialized deliberately chose wording in order to mislead the consumer into the thinking that the entire frame is M5. This reminds me of their terminology in regards to the cranks (ie: Octalink XT spline).

I admit that they are not lying, but choosing words to make the components look better than they actually are.
 

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I was told that was the only difference between my FSRxc and the stumpy frame. The base stumpjumper had an M4 downtube, the S-works an M5, and the fsr-xc just had a homogenous frame. The weight differenece is less than a 1/4 lb...
 

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The former Blue 'Goose
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And ultimately, what is the difference?

The M4 works just fine for me, I'd prefer the frame to last instead of having
a beer can thin frame ready to collapse at any second.

But yeah, the "fully manipulated" sets up a funny image in my mine that
the bike is "fully M5". Marketing.
 

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Bloodfist said:
His point is that Specialized deliberately chose wording in order to mislead the consumer into the thinking that the entire frame is M5. This reminds me of their terminology in regards to the cranks (ie: Octalink XT spline).

I admit that they are not lying, but choosing words to make the components look better than they actually are.
Its only misleading if you aren't paying attention. It is all right there plain as day. Its not burried with some micro print asterixed at the bottom of the page.

My thoughts about this and the hole octalink thread were "And...?"

Its simple folks: READ WHAT IT SAYS.
 

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I agree with the above poster... And??

It was always clear to me that it was only the downtube that had M5 tubing. In regards to 'fully manipulated', if you have a close look between an M4 and an M5 S-Works Stumpjumper hardtail frame, you will see there is a lot more material removed, especially around the bottom bracket and head tube areas.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
are the real weightd are >>>>>>>>>>>>>

so here are the real weight !!!

2005 S works FSR large with Septune shock w/o seat collar 2484 grams

septune shock 242 g & mounting hardware 30 grams = 272 grams

Frame without shock 2212 grams

2006 Pro FSR large with Remote Brain shock w/o seat collar 2845 grams

Remote Brain shock 512 grams & mounting hardware 31 grams = 543 Grams

Frame without shock 2302 grams

Total weight Differanve is 80 grams for the one M 5 Down tube and my Pro has v brake & brain tabs so maybe 5-10 grams so for all practical purposes it 75 grams ~ 3 oz difference and $1000.00 2006 Sworks $2200 and I just paid $ 1200 for the Pro Model! The frame is a great weight for 4 3/4" 120mm of travel right at 5 1/2 lbs with a lighter rp23 @ 205 grams ! Now to see how the brain fade rides and matches up with the 2007 Talas X that I have on order. I'm such a weight weenie it really is bothering me about the 75 grams !!
 

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Specialized spends much more time on the paint job on the s-works models. They put several layers of paint and primer on, so scratches are not as noticeable. Obviously the ano versions aren't done this way. S-works frames are just beautiful. Plus they are generally more generous on s-works warranty issues.
 

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Team Blindspot
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Spin Cycle said:
I am waiting on a 2006 Specialized FSR Stumpjumper Pro thats on order and this because after months of trying to buy a 2005 FSR S Works I wasn't having much sucess this lead to some research on the elusive M 5 Tubing that is the main selling point of the S Works frame ang found out that the catalog and web pages very carfully choose there words " M5 manipulated alloy DT with Transform monocoque TT" The Down Tube is the only tube on the entire bike that is M5 tubing the rest of the bike is the EXACT same tube set as the Pro !! one tube for $1000 thats great marketing hype ! At least after 45 minutes on the phone they ( Specialized tech support) did admitt this to be true ! And after another disapointing year of sales of the Epic, it entire line( even the base rim model) gets quote " M5 alloy fully manipulated frame" however that since they sell out of the FSR stumpy every year we only get one tube on no less than the S WORKS !! Must be some goooddd stuff that M5 tubing !
That's right. Is it worth the extra coin to get only downtube in M5 instead of M4? That's the question only you can answer. Personally, I don't think so. But hey, you also get the S-works moniker.:D
 

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Urban Ninja
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Glass half full approach

Spin Cycle said:
I am waiting on a 2006 Specialized FSR Stumpjumper Pro thats on order and this because after months of trying to buy a 2005 FSR S Works I wasn't having much sucess this lead to some research on the elusive M 5 Tubing that is the main selling point of the S Works frame ang found out that the catalog and web pages very carfully choose there words " M5 manipulated alloy DT with Transform monocoque TT" The Down Tube is the only tube on the entire bike that is M5 tubing the rest of the bike is the EXACT same tube set as the Pro !! one tube for $1000 thats great marketing hype ! At least after 45 minutes on the phone they ( Specialized tech support) did admitt this to be true ! And after another disapointing year of sales of the Epic, it entire line( even the base rim model) gets quote " M5 alloy fully manipulated frame" however that since they sell out of the FSR stumpy every year we only get one tube on no less than the S WORKS !! Must be some goooddd stuff that M5 tubing !
Is the M5 too expensive or is it that the Pro is a great deal? Maybe you should try looking at the glass half full and STOP COMPLAINING FOR GOD SAKES!
 

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If is true that the S Works frame is 75 grams less and $1000 more, you can spend $1000 to make the Stumpy lighter. Ironically, it wont still be a S Works. It is the name you are paying for really, not the M5 tubing they put.
 

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So a 2006 Stumpy Pro frame and shock sells for $1200? Is that including tax etc?
Do you happen to know the cost of the Expert?

From that I've seen when browsing, the S-works frame in normally the only one sold on its own. The 2005 S-works frames could (might still) be had for 699 british pounds ... which is about $US1300. Thats the 2005 without the brain fade shock though. I forget who had them, but they had a lot to clear cheap ... must have got a deal from the importers.
 

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"xt octalink spline" crap

ok....I've been quiet for a while. I've gotten over it. I was one of those who made a big fuss over the crankset issue for the 05 stumpy expert.

The problem isn't the fact that the specs says what it says. Specialized is so good at misleading, that even specialized dealers end up telling you that they XT cranks. Even the dealers are mislead. Out of all the dealers that I talked to, all of them said that they were the older version of the XT cranks.
Several dealer websites advertise the crankset as XT cranks. These specs available on those sites are identical to each other. I can't seem to find the dealers at fault, because I would assume they didn't make up any of this information.
I brought this up with Specialized, and they said that they would contact the retailers and take care of the situation. Up to this day, errors were never corrected.

Before anybody goes crazy on me, let me say this: I am not giving specialized products a bad rep. I own 4 of their bikes and some of their accessories. 2 '05 bikes and 2 '06 bikes which I bought all this year. However, I feel that their business ethics are getting a little sheisty, specially with advertisement.

Anybody who feel that the phrase "specs subject to change" protects them should pretty much screw themselves (not really, but ...). First off, these issues have nothing to do with that. This is a matter of false and misleading advertisements.

For any other spec issues that consumers complain to specialized, they usually respond: "specs subjuect to change." I think those are Josh's ( from Specialized tech support) favorite words.

Even if specialized tried to "specs subject to change," we all know that this will definitely protect them. Now, let me ask...what will protect the consumer?
 

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Urban Ninja
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confuzshuz said:
ok....I've been quiet for a while. I've gotten over it. I was one of those who made a big fuss over the crankset issue for the 05 stumpy expert.

QUOTE]

I don't see what the big deal is here? The're just cranks bro. LX/XT whatever. Have you had any problems with them? Maybe you should worry more about your next ride rather than nit picking your parts spec. It seems like everyone just wants to complain on this forum.
 
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