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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am waiting on a 2006 Specialized FSR Stumpjumper Pro thats on order and this because after months of trying to buy a 2005 FSR S Works(MTBR/eBay) I wasn't having much sucess, this lead to some research on the elusive M 5 Tubing that is the main selling point of the S Works frame and found out that Specialized are very carfully with the words they choose in their catalog and on their web page quote" M5 manipulated alloy DT with Transform monocoque TT" The Down Tube is the only tube on the entire bike that is M5 tubing the rest of the bike is the EXACT same tube set as the rest of the entire line of FSR's !! one tube for $1000 thats great marketing hype ! At least after 45 minutes on the phone they ( Specialized tech support) did admitt this to be true ! And after another disapointing year of sales of the Epic, it entire line( even the base rim model) gets quote " M5 alloy fully manipulated frame" however that since they sell out of the FSR stumpy every year we only get one tube on no less than the S WORKS !! Must be some goooddd stuff that M5 tubing ! Also the two new carbon models have M5 rear ends so the material works in all areas of the frame !
 

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i could have told you they

aren't that special. that co. has a great marketing dept. their product is nothing special,
it's heavy and WAY over priced. i'm not sure why so many people run out to buy their
mtb's, better bikes can be had for much less money.
 

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Actually on the aluminum epics the top tube is also M5 but you are right, kinda disingenuous (spelling?) to be selling it as a full M5 bike

Supposedly the reason that only the downtube can be M5 on a stumpjumper is all the welding and monocoquing on the stumpjumper top and seat tubes do not work with the material. Basically extruded tubes like the epic top tube and downtubes and the epic rear end are able to be made out of M5.... seem to remember someone in the know saying that on the specialized board. Point is it does NOT work in all areas of the frame, I guess.
 

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isn't the alloy epic

downtube hydroformed for that nice bend in it near the headtube? anyways great marketing
dept, if they are getting people to shell out 7k for an epic then i congratulate them. kinda
like trek getting 10k for that madone sslx, what a joke.
 

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correct...

peabody said:
downtube hydroformed for that nice bend in it near the headtube? anyways great marketing
dept, if they are getting people to shell out 7k for an epic then i congratulate them. kinda
like trek getting 10k for that madone sslx, what a joke.
sad but true - Specialized "special alloys" never have been anything extraordinary. frames are heavier and no stiffer than other frames on the market. even S-Works bikes are heavier than a nice taiwan frame...

the carbon versions are extremely overprized. they are just a fraction lighter and SOFTER than their alloy counterparts as well. but people seem to be happy with a sticker saying "alloy XY".

i was a hardcore Specialized rider a couple of years ago. i also believed the hype and had 4 S-Works bikes in that period but eventually found out they were just having nice stickers and a high price. sure nice bikes but nothing spectacular at all. even worse are all the aftermarket items, starting with tires,grips , saddles, rubber inlays in frames and forks (???) etc etc.

as mentioned above, those guys have a good marketing departement. next in line is/was Cannondale but i better stop as this leads to another heated debate;)
 

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nino

this is getting scary, we agree again:) , ok i have to end this before it gets out of hand, i think there are better frames than scotts on the market, just not specialized! don't even get me started on all their "in house" accessories.
 

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And the worst is when you go into a store and the sales people believe all the hype 100%too! :madman: They tell me their carbon HT is the lightest frame available. I just have to make a decision about how long I want to talk to the guy. I usually just look surprised, "wow" and walk off. :smallviolin:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
M5 used in all parts on different bikes....

On the 06 carbon Epic and Stumpjumper FSR they list" M5 Alloy rear triangle",

the entire 06 Epic line " M5 fully manipulated frame" and on the 06 Stumpjumper FSR

Aluminum model with the brain fade is listed as having" M5 manipulated DT with transform

monocoque TT"
so they do use the higher quality alloy in all parts of their bikes but choose

to make it sound like the complete bikes are M5 alloy not just a tube here and there.

Regarding the weight , this what started me on trying to find a 2005 FSR stumpjumper

they are around 2514 grams for a large that I have veified the weight and 2420 on weight

weenies for a medium for 4.75 " / 120mm of travel that's a nice weight. However I bought a

2006 FSR Stumpjumper Pro on a frame exchange deal I found out about while talking to

Specialized about their marketing hype that I turned in a frame and for $1200 dollars I can

buy the new frame albeit with the brain fade and around 2800 grams, I still can change it

out to a standard rp23 and get the weight back down,
 

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Oh My God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Slobberdoggy said:
And the worst is when you go into a store and the sales people believe all the hype 100%too! :madman: They tell me their carbon HT is the lightest frame available. I just have to make a decision about how long I want to talk to the guy. I usually just look surprised, "wow" and walk off. :smallviolin:

you must be reading my mind, it is sickening to listen too. they literally are like puppets
telling you what the specialized rep is telling them. that is too funny. picked up the latest
MBA (don't know why) and that is all they do is plug specialized, i swear specialized owns
that magazine.
 

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You know, as much as I like Specialized bikes (espescially the epic as a race bike) I couldnt agree more about marketing BS. Lets face it though... as nino says everyone does it, and if YOU were running a bike company you'd have as aggressive a marketing division if it meant making Specailized/trek/cannondale revenue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
peabody said:
you must be reading my mind, it is sickening to listen too. they literally are like puppets
telling you what the specialized rep is telling them. that is too funny. picked up the latest
MBA (don't know why) and that is all they do is plug specialized, i swear specialized owns
that magazine.
The LBS were I know the service manager sells both Trek and Specialized and the sales people get a double dose of the dealers manual and believe it's the bible. Regarding my purchase it was interesting that after a half hour on the phone out of left field comes this offer for the "frame exchange deal" . I figure that this would require a specialized frame , but no any frame above a "Huffy" was all that was required and for $1200 that a pretty good deal. It must be there as the last saving grace when they need to satisfy a customer for what ever reason. When I asked the above dealer about it it was like they kinda heard about it but not really. They probably get screwed by Specialized on it and don't make their margin on the transaction
 

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Mr. Scary said:
To really get a Specy rep or salesperson going inquire about the new Tarmac SL, I heard more bs about that thing at the last mtb race I was at...
("Nobody is doing what we are doing with a road frame, the top tube is under tension, nobody is doing that!"). It was freaking hilarious, especially the way the rep back pedaled when Scott was mentioned (and their manufacturing process). Specy is good for lawsuits though, they own that!
Look not defending specialized or any reps/marketing people but keep in mind these people's JOBS is to sell stuff whether we want it or not, whether that takes spouting BS or not, so take anything they say with a grain of salt.
 

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I agree with bh.
Their job is too BS us into buying their product over someone elses. Do you own research then decide what works best for you.

Personally it's not Specialized marketing that puts me off, it's the lack of value in their top end products. The middle tier products I think are well priced for whay you get but the Performance and Pro level equipment offers nothing I can't get elsewhere for less cash and weight and with better service.

Don't park your brain outside...
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
real weights

so here are the real weight !!!

2005 S works FSR large with Septune shock w/o seat collar 2484 grams

septune shock 242 g & mounting hardware 30 grams = 272 grams

Frame without shock 2212 grams



2006 Pro FSR large with Remote Brain shock w/o seat collar 2845 grams

Remote Brain shock 512 grams & mounting hardware 31 grams = 543 Grams

Frame without shock 2302 grams

Total weight Differanve is 80 grams for the one M 5 Down tube and my Pro has v brake & brain tabs so maybe 5-10 grams so for all practical purposes it 75 grams ~ 3 oz difference and $1000.00 2006 Sworks $2200 and I just paid $ 1200 for the Pro Model! The frame is a great weight for 4 3/4" 120mm of travel right at 5 1/2 lbs with a lighter rp23 @ 205 grams ! Now to see how the brain fade rides and matches up with the 2007 Talas X that I have on order. I'm such a weight weenie it really is bothering me about the 75 grams !!
 

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