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Specialized building their own shocks and forks....

2733 Views 27 Replies 16 Participants Last post by jeppe, Jul 20, 2006

EPICYZ

Discussion Starter · Jul 11, 2006

The the H*** are they thinking. Fox will build them anything they want. Why start doing something you have no experiance with when its just not needed? I am sure they will have everything figured out in a couple of years. Until then, I am not taking a chance. I'll keep my '06 Epic with it's Fox built Brain.

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

MrEconomics

· #2 · Jul 13, 2006

I'm not as paranoid as you.

But you do raise a key concern. Never buy the product the first year out. Think of a new line of cars. Always wait a year.

Sure the brain is not new, but redesigned by a company that did not make it before. Could present issues the first year.

Again, I'm stuck on the 06 Marathon or 07 Marathon debate. Which to get. I do know my 04 Brain looks pretty sad compared to the newer ones. But I love my bike.

EPICYZ

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jul 13, 2006

Actually..

As an owner of an '03, '04 and '06 Epic, I can say the '04 Brain as not sad at all and much better than the '03 and not too far off from the '06. I am sure the '07 is improved but what good is that if it won't hold air or leaks oil? I hope I am wrong.

DeeEight

· #4 · Jul 13, 2006

It wouldn't be specialized building them anyways, they've never had a factory of their own. All their products are made for them by foreign companies. Always have been, always will be. Someone was ranting in the save some weight forum about spinner's withdrawal from the US market and specialized's fork/shock announcement being more than a coincidence. Of course he thinks specialized pressured spinner out because fox was complaining the spool valve works too much like their terralogic forks. I'd say Spinner is going to be making specialized's forks would be more likely, and a condition of the contract would be discontinuing sales of their own forks in the USA.

bob46802

· #5 · Jul 13, 2006

cutting out the middleman and most likely cutting costs.
if you can make it in-house, its generally cheaper. Specialized is one of few bike companies that sells enough bikes for it to be worth making their own stuff.

MrEconomics

· #6 · Jul 13, 2006

As an owner of an '03, '04 and '06 Epic, I can say the '04 Brain as not sad at all and much better than the '03 and not too far off from the '06. I am sure the '07 is improved but what good is that if it won't hold air or leaks oil? I hope I am wrong.

See dude, this is where I get so confused. I have the 04 Epic Comp and love her. It was my very first 'real' mountain bike so we have a special bond. I keep thinking of dropping $2000 on her for component upgrades (includes wheels). That would give her the latest and greatest components on an 04 frame. Probable be 1.5 pounds lighter too.

But then I think of the fade option on the newer shocks. This last race I was in (33 miles) I could have used a softer shock. The trail was just brutal and being a long race I would have just tuned it more towards trail settings.

Considering the cost, I just don't want to make the wrong decision. If the new shock holds up to what they say then your right it could be a bad a$$ shock.

:madman:

EPICYZ

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jul 13, 2006

I hear you....

Your Brain IQ on your '04 works well so I would just wait and see what happens. I am hoping that Specialized will release more details on exactly who will be building the new shock and put our worries to rest. My bet is the lower end versions will still have the Brain Fade so you could upgrade to the new frame and get the new shock at a later time.

Yanick

· #8 · Jul 13, 2006

I heard that FOX ask more (most likely money) to produce the Brain so Spesh turn around and looked at someone else. But why they decide to enter the Fork market?

I'm concerned too!

Yanick

· #9 · Jul 13, 2006

bob46802 said:
cutting out the middleman and most likely cutting costs.
if you can make it in-house, its generally cheaper. Specialized is one of few bike companies that sells enough bikes for it to be worth making their own stuff.

I have to desagree here, FOX already has the knowedge, suppliers, the human ressources, the factory etc. How can you start something from barrely nothing and save cash? FOX sell 10 to 100 times more shock than Spesh will sell. Never heard of "economy of scale" (if that's the good translation from french)?

HO and by the way, do you all remember some in house component named CODA (aka Cannondale) ? they were not even close in quality and durability with their competitor...

more I think, more I'm concerned

TXNavy

· #10 · Jul 13, 2006

Aside from proprietary mechanical filters for low frequency inputs like the Brain or SPV, mountain bike shocks and forks aren't really that difficult to produce. The Specialized stuff will most likely be fine regardless of who makes it. I'm really surprised that there aren't more companies in the market making quality products...but that's just me.

There's a lot of companies out there that people believe to be better for emotional reasons that actually make a lot more engineering mistakes. No reason at all why this shock won't be as good or better than the Fox shocks...

bob46802

· #11 · Jul 13, 2006

economies of scale comes into play for sure.

also consider that fox doubles the price of their fork when they sell it to bike companies
If specialized is buying the forks for 200, that means fox is making it for 100.
Even if specialized cant match the production cost of fox, they still have plenty of room to play with until the cost of buying it from fox is lower.
Generally speaking if you produce your parts in house you get to have better quality control, more inventory control, and you are paying your employees versus someones elses employees.

bob46802

· #12 · Jul 13, 2006

TXNavy said:
Aside from proprietary mechanical filters for low frequency inputs like the Brain or SPV, mountain bike shocks and forks aren't really that difficult to produce. The Specialized stuff will most likely be fine regardless of who makes it. I'm really surprised that there aren't more companies in the market making quality products...but that's just me.

There's a lot of companies out there that people believe to be better for emotional reasons that actually make a lot more engineering mistakes. No reason at all why this shock won't be as good or better than the Fox shocks...

I would guess that Fox could have some of the lower costs/higher profits since they do a decent amount of volume and they have a relatively specific niche market.

Also keep in mind that many people would rather buy a fox fork for its brand appeal.

Think of buddys riding in the trail and someone is like "hey I got a new specialized shock!"
everyones reply "huh, they dont make shocks dude!?" "you should have got a Fox fork instead, they kick ass!"

jeppe

· #13 · Jul 13, 2006 (Edited)

EPICYZ said:
The the H*** are they thinking. Fox will build them anything they want. Why start doing something you have no experiance with when its just not needed? I am sure they will have everything figured out in a couple of years. Until then, I am not taking a chance. I'll keep my '06 Epic with it's Fox built Brain.

You're saying that Spec has no experience in shocks and still you're using the Fox Brain. Ever heard of Mike McAndews? He was experienced enough to design your Brain (and to improve it this year - sure works, look at Killeen and Sauser), but not experienced enough to make pretty basic shocks?

EDIT: sorry, it looks like you mean the actual manufacturer. Surely there are a lot of companys/factorys that can do the job properly when certain demands of quality are agreed on. This is exactly what Fox does. Fox Forks are masterpieces of art because they have made an agreenment on higher standars in quality. Foxes are manufactured with precision and it cost's. Anyone can get a factory to manufacture components with precision IF they are willing to pay for it.

EPICYZ

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jul 14, 2006

Again people

I am sure the design is improved. It's the manufacturing that worries me. The best shock is worthless if it leaks oil or air because of poor build quality.

jeppe

· #15 · Jul 14, 2006

Before we go accusing anyone from making bad business, should we find out who manufactures S-forks and shocks?
Anyone? Is there anything black and white on the Spinner-connection?

adamantane

· #16 · Jul 14, 2006

fox sucks, this could be real good

gambo2166

· #17 · Jul 16, 2006

Its hard enough for a company that is dedicated to making one product (shocks). I don't think this is so great for the big S in the long run, They have there hands in too many things, tires ,seats,computers,ect.. Thy should just stick with making good bikes.

pwrtrainer

· #18 · Jul 16, 2006

except for the fact that the components they make outside of bikes are very well made, the seats are awesome, the tires are even better, especially the UST. and all the stock components that came with the bike are still there, because they work. granted this is a new arena for them, but as much r+d they do, you would think they would probably put that much energy into a new area like this, i doubt they suddenly woke up and said " im gonna make shocks today" probably spent alot of money just seeing that it would be a good idea in the first place. oh yeah, the shoes, the shorts, the gloves those rule as well. just because it is part of a big corp doesnt mean it is going to be a bad part, NIKE ring a bell? with as long as fox takes to do any kind of maintenence i think this will be great in the sense that they will be able to get off their high horse and do something new service their customers.

cort

· #19 · Jul 16, 2006

adamantane said:
fox sucks, this could be real good

And your reasons are....?

jeppe

· #20 · Jul 16, 2006

Competition is tough in the business and to maintain competitive edge, one must keep the price down in low-mid-level bikes. This can be done by noname products where the brand matters least (seatposts, stems, handlebars, saddles etc). Nobody buys a mid-level bike because it has a Thomson seatpost. They'd rather have a cheaper bike with noname seatpost. This gets you started, but in many cases today it only gets you on the same line with other companys.
I've seen what middlehands do to bike/component prices. Surely this matters most in [import] dealer-level, but there's a lot of money to be saved by cutting the amount of middlehands and doing as much as you can by yourself.
This is where proprietary suspension components come to play. Making them yourself can save money compared to buying the components from someone else. Since suspension components make most of the price in full-sus. bikes, cutting costs at that area can just give you the competitive edge by reducing the price.

Low-mid-level bikes vs. S-Works? Yes, surely S-Works can hardly by rated mid-level, but the rules apply in almost any level (unless the price is high enough not to be an issue).

Fox could have built them what they wanted? Mabye, but since this is something way different from the Fox-line, they propably wouldn't have wanted to design an entire new set of forks and shocks. They still have to do their own R'n'D. Spec propably considered Fox when chosing the manufacturer and possibly asked for their offer.

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