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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I got this a little over a week ago, just gettin' round to posting it now.

A little souvenir from the rangers at Fremont Older. At least it's not a ticket.

What it is, is a written warning, for biking over the 15 MPH speed limit. They keep 'em on file and if you get too many, bad things will happen to you.

My feelings about this whole thing are mixed.

Was I breaking the rules? Yes. Ranger had a radar gun on me (coming down the hill on Seven Springs (running the loop counter clock-wise) before the slow "s" turn) and clocked me at 21 MPH. And not having a computer on my bike, 21 MPH on that section is basically just "cruising". BTW, ranger had a red hardtail bike next to him, so as I came down the hill, I had assumed he was a fellow biker. Well...he IS a fellow mountain biker, I suppose, but one with a radar gun and a ranger's badge.

Was I riding unsafely? Absolutely not. I don't speed around blind corners and I basically come to a stop whenever passing hikers.....I always announce my presence ahead of time and I am always very polite and say "thank you" when they move over...regardless of whether they are frowning, smiling, or (usually) something in between.

In the end, I just suck it up and say to myself, "dang...shoulda known better than to come out here (Fremont Older) on a Saturday afternoon." Ranger was very cordial and friendly, and I was really just happy to receive a warning only. There was another ranger in the parking lot by the golf course, as I exited the park to my car (parked further down the road).

-g

(p.s. For those of you who also ride St. Joseph's Hill in Los Gatos, be warned that there is a ranger out there with a radar gun. He hangs out at the bottom of the down hill, on the back side ... as you head down from the top.)
 

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Sweet! You got off lucky.

I bike St. Joseph's about 5 days per week and have gotten to know their schedule and, like the CHP on Hwy. 17, their favorite speed trap spots.

I am not surprised about the spot they caught you on at FO. That section could pose more of a danger to some out-of-control noob just learning to ride a bike. Since we do live in a nanny state, we must be protected from ourselves first and foremost.

To all the lawyers in the house: what does "This notice does not prohibit prosecution" really mean? If they change their minds, they can come back and get you? If some future event can be linked to this event, they can come back and get you? Seems like you're signing your life away!
 

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Fremont Older is always very busy on a nice weekend day with hikers and equestrians.
It's probably a good idea to take it easy there.
Two weeks ago, as I approached a blind corner, a horse came galloping around the corner and I had to slid of the trail to prevent a collision, even though I was well within the 15mph speed limit range. Does the speed limit apply to equestrians as well?

- J.L.
 

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Just a warning? You are sooo lucky. I got popped for $271.00 for going 21MPH on St. Joseph's :( No one else on the hill and I was just cruising then BAM -- the Ranger steps out from behind her hiding spot with her RADAR gun and nails me and was totally unwilling to cut me any slack. Be careful in L.G....they don't mess around with us hard-core criminal types....
 

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And the world is now a safer place!

That hurts. A little psychological bruise to keep you from having too much fun.

Hey, at least we don't have speed cameras. But I am grateful to have ridden FO before humanoid creatures put a damper on it.
 

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I got stopped a couple of months back on the back side of jones for going a measly 20 mph. There was another rider at the top of the hill who looked like he was getting ready to head down, that's why I was more conscious of him than the ranger...

I gave the ranger a piece of my mind, railing at the absurdity of radaring at such a spot, but I piped down when the ranger said he would only give me a warning...

But then another rider comes into view, we see a big puff of dirt as the rider hits his brakes, The ranger picks up his radar gun and clocks the dude, As the dude rolls past the ranger goes "Slow Down!" The dude answers "I am going slow!" The ranger doesn't like the tone of this and tells the guy to stop, but the guy keeps rolling. The ranger says stop again, to no avail, then he goes "Stop, you are under arrest!", but the guy keeps rolling down the hill. The ranger sighs and turns to me and says "I guess I gotta call this one in."
He lets me go without my warning slip and thanks me for cooperating. As I roll by the radar gun I see he clocked the other guy at 22 mph, but the ranger didn't have back-up at the trailhead, so the 22mph riding miscreant got away...
 

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Up here in Fairfax, we just have to outrun the rangers. If a sheriff steps out from behind a bush with a radar gun, I'll just keep cruising.
 

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chudaman said:
...
But then another rider comes into view, we see a big puff of dirt as the rider hits his brakes, The ranger picks up his radar gun and clocks the dude, As the dude rolls past the ranger goes "Slow Down!" The dude answers "I am going slow!" The ranger doesn't like the tone of this and tells the guy to stop, but the guy keeps rolling. The ranger says stop again, to no avail, then he goes "Stop, you are under arrest!", but the guy keeps rolling down the hill. The ranger sighs and turns to me and says "I guess I gotta call this one in."
He lets me go without my warning slip and thanks me for cooperating. As I roll by the radar gun I see he clocked the other guy at 22 mph, but the ranger didn't have back-up at the trailhead, so the 22mph riding miscreant got away...
that's the best ranger story I have heard in a long time. When I went to court to get my speeding ticket reduced (24 mph) the bailiff said he would not have stopped. Maybe that was him? My judge threw out my ticket and said "don't the rangers have something better to do?"
 

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Fireball in the Night
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gregg said:
I got this a little over a week ago, just gettin' round to posting it now.
A little souvenir from the rangers at Fremont Older. At least it's not a ticket.
Thanks for the heads up. FO, St Joe, Stevens are all pretty much a bust.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Biking Brazilian said:
...
To all the lawyers in the house: what does "This notice does not prohibit prosecution" really mean? If they change their minds, they can come back and get you? If some future event can be linked to this event, they can come back and get you? Seems like you're signing your life away!
I'm no lawyer, but I took this to mean that yes, the warning could turn in to a ticket if the right/wrong circumstances arose. Don't know what those circumstances would be though.


JL de Jong said:
...Does the speed limit apply to equestrians as well?

- J.L.
Interesting question! I would assume it does apply to equestrians. But, I have personally never seen any horse back riders going faster than a jogger's pace, at most.


spec306 said:
Just a warning? You are sooo lucky. I got popped for $271.00 for going 21MPH on St. Joseph's :( No one else on the hill and I was just cruising then BAM -- the Ranger steps out from behind her hiding spot with her RADAR gun and nails me and was totally unwilling to cut me any slack. Be careful in L.G....they don't mess around with us hard-core criminal types....
DAAnnngg! $271!!! I had no idea that it would be that much. That's more than my last speeding ticket on my motorcycle (not counting the traffic school fees.) Ouch.


I guess I'm too much of a chicken to think about trying to ditch/out-run them. In this particular case, the ranger DID have back up at the park exit. Not surprising since there is a ranger's residence at Fremont Older. I'd worry about having to out run them all the way back to the car...trying to load up real fast, then hi-tailing it out to the main streets. But for $271 bucks.....

Surprised nobody mentioned just giving the ranger false information....a thought that DID cross my mind ever so briefly. I didn't have my license on me (the ranger asked) as I don't habitually ride with my wallet. So, the possibility of supplying false information was there. But for a warning, why bother, right? Just accept that fact that I got busted.

And I've heard that if they even THINK you are giving dodgey information, they could/would follow you back to your vehicle and take down the license number of your vehicle....course I suppose you could say that you rode from home....

Where can I get one of those "mountain biking is not a crime" shirts?

-g
 

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Who ever heard of a cop giving a writen warning? Not me

To up hold a radar ticket in court the ranger has to show the radar is calabrated, he must have the training to use radar from CHP, and he has to show that the road way was assessed for a safe speed. The ranger most likely could not write a ticket that would stick.

From experience- Contest any ticket from a ranger, compare the rediculus fines for riding a bike to the cheeper and more dangerous auto violation. You could get the fine reduced or thrown out.

Its also a good idea to ask rangers if you are free to go when stopped or if you have to give them info. Many times they cant detain or demand info. That's why, when you dont stop nothing happens, but play it safe a stop.
 

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gregg said:
Surprised nobody mentioned just giving the ranger false information....a thought that DID cross my mind ever so briefly. I didn't have my license on me (the ranger asked) as I don't habitually ride with my wallet. So, the possibility of supplying false information was there. But for a warning, why bother, right? Just accept that fact that I got busted.

-g
The ranger can / will call the local PD for verification of the information you provide including the Drivers lic, address, and physical description. They did this to me another time I got stopped on St. Josephs and I didn't have and ID on me.
 

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Fireball in the Night
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Chips n Beer said:
Who ever heard of a cop giving a writen warning? Not me

To up hold a radar ticket in court the ranger has to show the radar is calabrated, he must have the training to use radar from CHP, and he has to show that the road way was assessed for a safe speed. The ranger most likely could not write a ticket that would stick.

From experience- Contest any ticket from a ranger, compare the rediculus fines for riding a bike to the cheeper and more dangerous auto violation. You could get the fine reduced or thrown out.

Its also a good idea to ask rangers if you are free to go when stopped or if you have to give them info. Many times they cant detain or demand info. That's why, when you dont stop nothing happens, but play it safe a stop.
Cops don't give written warnings. They might complete a field card, but you're not receiving a copy of it.
FYI : There's no effing way I would accept bulljive advice from somebody who hasn't calabrated their knowledge of the English language. Your message is completely discredited by 7th grade spelling errors. You may, however, have a bright future in writing copy for bogus websites.
 

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Fireball in the Night
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gregg said:
Surprised nobody mentioned just giving the ranger false information....a thought that DID cross my mind ever so briefly. I didn't have my license on me (the ranger asked) as I don't habitually ride with my wallet. So, the possibility of supplying false information was there. But for a warning, why bother, right? Just accept that fact that I got busted.

And I've heard that if they even THINK you are giving dodgey information, they could/would follow you back to your vehicle and take down the license number of your vehicle....course I suppose you could say that you rode from home....
Good call. You'd have to know exactly all of the info on another real person's ID to pull this off, including astrological sign. << Most people foul this up when providing a false birthdate.
Depending on the agency, the penalty for providing false info to an officer/ranger may exceed the original offense.

gregg said:
you could say that you rode from home....
Another reason (besides auto burglary) not to park at the trailhead.
 

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Here's my do's and don'ts.

Do not speed on weekends on busy trails.

Do not run from the law.

Do not give false information.

Do show respect and good behavior with enforcement.

Do challenge the $300 ticket with all your might. It will get reduced in court.

Do work to change the 15 mph speed laws and the other inane bike laws in Norcal.

These are just my opinions of course.

fc
 

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Rex_Skidmore said:
Cops don't give written warnings. They might complete a field card, but you're not receiving a copy of it.
FYI : There's no effing way I would accept bulljive advice from somebody who hasn't calabrated their knowledge of the English language. Your message is completely discredited by 7th grade spelling errors. You may, however, have a bright future in writing copy for bogus websites.
Lol.
 

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Rex_Skidmore said:
Depending on the agency, the penalty for providing false info to an officer/ranger may exceed the original offense.
Got taged on Dogmeat once, did not have my id and when he called in my information they were unable to make a match. Ranger became VERY hostile with me told me he was going to arrest me with a felony for providing false information. I had my cell phone with me and called my wife who provided my DL number which they were able to match up. Of course no Apologies for acting like an ass to me when it was there fault.
 

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Being through this stupid process myself, and a norcal transplant from the east coast, it peeves me every time I hear this. Francois brings up a good point though:

Do work to change the 15 mph speed laws and the other inane bike laws in Norcal.

NORCAL...seriously, what is wrong with this place. Oh I must have forgotten, there was probably ample research done in norcal that the rest of the country didn't do proving mtn bike speeding warrants buying radar guns with tax money and giving the ranger community enough money to pay for time sitting in the woods to do something other than put out forest fires (or whatever other jobs they have 'protecting the park) thus resulting in less mtn bike deaths and injuries to all trail users.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park_ranger

Maybe I'll update the wiki description to say 'and in norcal, they have the authority to enforce made up laws by creating arbitrary speed limits and administering fines in the $300 range. Although people outside norcal laugh at norcal nazis and wonder who makes these decisions and who approves them, they are jealous of the sweet single track.'
 
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