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Try building up a steel frame 29 plus bike. I feel your pain


Speaking from experience it's sometimes best not to know how much your steed weighs

In addition to the 29+,I have a similarly specced aluminum mullet plus bike, almost identical in componentry, and it feels fly-weight compared to the steel beast. Probably the only difference besides the alloy is the fact that I run tubes on the 29+

Outside of the big obvious frame weight factor there isn't much to do about it besides the costly (tubless, CF wheels, CF crankset, etc.). You could geek out and CF everything = additional weight lose / diminishing returns

The weight of the bike doesn't necessarily translate directly into peddling efficiency (IMO). My big 29+ bike tractors up grades that I simply cannot climb in the mullet. Design (geometry, build, set up) will trump weight.


shave weight in what accessories you carry

Personally I could stand to lose some body weight....that would be win-win and probably make a huge difference

Get stronger. It's more of a workout, but is that a bad thing if you've compensated physically?
 

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I just don't like the idea of tubeless. For one, I heard it's not lighter at all (no idea if that is true or not), but most importantly, I hate the entire concept. Just the fact you can't let the bike sit for a while, otherwise you need to change the milk, which looks like a horrible mess of a job. I also heard the stuff leaks through the tires no matter what you do.
yeah, if you don't ride your bike much, then it doesn't make much sense. Once or more a week is enough to make it worth it though. You don't need to change sealant, just add a little every few months. Remove core, put sealant hose over valve, squeeze in an ounce, done, no mess. I haven't had leakage through tires in years, had some way back with Stans and early tires. Tape can be a pain, I use but not really thrilled with Gorilla tape. It's not completely water/sealant proof. And when you remove Gorilla tpae, THAT is a royal PIA and mess. I dismount tires as little as possible, usually only to discard the old tire. Do it with some care and you can dismount tire with almost no mess too. I usually don't bother saving old sealant.
If you want to stay tubes, you could try Tubolitos/poly tubes, it'll shave a decent amount of weight for $20 odd dollars more per tube. Some balk at the thought of paying that much for tubes though. I'm trying out one on road wheel and carry one as my spare. So far so good. Disadvantages other than cost is they do not stretch much, you need to get as close to correct size as possible, and the patches are specific self adhesive quick patches, I have no faith in the longgevity of those.
 

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thread start is I built a bike its heavy......thread now tubeless tubeless tubeless and how not to waste 50grms of "milk"..........

ummmm do l have it correct.....or did l miss something because l dont see tubeless as the fix here, it'll help but it aint the fix
 

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Nah, just complaints about running things tubeless (somewhere in the middle of the thread) from someone (the OP) who has never done it. So there, as normal, will be conversation about that.
 

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When you need to change a tire, doesn't all the gross sealant spill all over the rim, and you spend the next hour cleaning it off?

Nope, you pop the bead, use the same syringe that you put the sealant in with to draw the liquid out so you can re use it.
 

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I had a few hassles with tubeless tires when I first started using them. But once you get the hang of installing them it's only a little more difficult than putting in a tube; that is, not difficult at all. The only part of the process that can annoy you is seating the bead. I have an air compressor so it's a non-issue and I'm always willing to sacrifice a CO2 cartridge if it comes to it.

The wheels are lighter and you can feel the difference. I have slashed some side walls but after going tubeless, I don't remember the last time I had a puncture. I'm sure I've had them but they seal so quickly you don't notice. I top the sealant off every now and then (I use Orange Seal which is better than Stans and doesn't congeal) and don't worry about it for the life of the tire.

I never really got a lot of flats before I went tubeless...but I had enough of them to be irritating every now and then.

Tubes are fine. They work great. I wouldn't fault anybody for sticking with them. Tubeless is better, in my opinion.

I carry a Tubolito tube as a spare on all of my bikes (and two of them on my bikepacking bike). They are very light, a third of the weight of a light latex tube. In the end, if you can't get the punctures to seal, can't repair the tire, or can't seat the bead, you can throw in the tube and you'll be no worse off than you were back in the stone age before tubeless tires. The Tubolitos are expensive but it's likely a one-time purchase which you will probably never use. If you store them carefully on your bike they will last a long time. I'll pay fifty bucks to shave a pound and a half of unnecessary weight off of my bikepacking bike which I hope to use on the Tour Divide next year, not to mention the space saving as they are very small when rolled up.

Just an observation in regard to Tubolitos and other ostensibly expensive parts, bikes, or accessories. If they are high quality, give good service, and last a long time you will never be sorry you paid the extra money. I have never been out in the rain and sleet and cursed myself for having spent close to $300 on a high quality, waterproof jacket. I have two Patagonia Nanopuff jackets that I use for layering in the winter and to increase the R-value of my sleep kit. I paid something like $260 for the first one and $140 for the second one on sale. Seveny miles from the nearest town with the temperature dropping and the sleet coming down I have only fond memories of the money I spent.
 

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Just an observation in regard to Tubolitos and other ostensibly expensive parts, bikes, or accessories. If they are high quality, give good service, and last a long time you will never be sorry you paid the extra money. I have never been out in the rain and sleet and cursed myself for having spent close to $300 on a high quality, waterproof jacket. I have two Patagonia Nanopuff jackets that I use for layering in the winter and to increase the R-value of my sleep kit. I paid something like $260 for the first one and $140 for the second one on sale. Seveny miles from the nearest town with the temperature dropping and the sleet coming down I have only fond memories of the money I spent.

Agree that it's usually worth it to pay more for quality gear and I rarely regret it but I'm not sure I'd put Tubolitos in that particular category. They're great for a lightweight spare but back when I used tubes they would rarely last me much more than a week. ~$30 a pop seem a bit exorbitant to me at that rate.
 

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Discussion Starter #50
thread start is I built a bike its heavy......thread now tubeless tubeless tubeless and how not to waste 50grms of "milk"..........

ummmm do l have it correct.....or did l miss something because l dont see tubeless as the fix here, it'll help but it aint the fix
The thread evolved :D
 

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Ha! I spent money and gained 4 lbs. (1.8kg)
Jamis Portal stock.
  • I replaced the fork w/ a beefier 150mm Lyrik.
  • Tire inserts.
  • Coil shock
It's now ~35 lbs.

It bothered me at first. But it is so capable now, I love it.

1908712
 

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3 ounces of sealant weighs ~60 grams and a 29" tube usually weighs 200+. It may not save much weight but it's some.
And it's unspring rotating weight, which is about the best kind of weight you can save. I leave my bikes sitting unridden for a month or so and have no issues with tubeless, though after that sort of break you do need to check the pressures again. Two weeks is nothing IME, give it a shot.

I feel your pain, sorta, as I've gone from a 13.8kg 27.5" "trail bike" to a 15.4kg 29er "trail bike". Truth is, I barely notice the difference other than lifting it off the car and over the gate into the forest. I'm still on the fence with it, but if I do keep it then lighter wheels will be high on the to-do list. As mentioned you could spend a ****-load of money on lighter bars/cranks/cassette etc etc and probably [if you're honest] notice almost no difference on the trail. Lighter wheels will be the best bang-for-buck in terms of weight savings that equates to a real-world increase in performance.
 

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Discussion Starter #53
The thing is, what's the heaviest about the wheels? The rims I guess? (tires excluded, those are situational and you don't want to put something light and XC-like on a trail bike) I'd have to go carbon to save any weight there, right?
 

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The thing is, what's the heaviest about the wheels? The rims I guess? (tires excluded, those are situational and you don't want to put something light and XC-like on a trail bike) I'd have to go carbon to save any weight there, right?
Given about the same strength rim in carbon you'll save about 50g per rim. Which is practically nothing.

Going tubeless doesn't save much if any weight either but it has proven to reduce some rolling resistance and improves ride quality.

A lot of stock saddles are really heavy. You could probably drop 1/2Lbs changing saddles at a reasonable price.
 

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Discussion Starter #55
That's weird, I thought there's weight to be saved on the rims and maybe hubs.
I guess there's no magic :D
 

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That's weird, I thought there's weight to be saved on the rims and maybe hubs.
I guess there's no magic :D
Carbon XC rims are about 300g from what I've seen. If your on 27.5 the rims you posted at 475g each rated for DH/Enduro. A carbon enduro rim is about 400 to 450g. I don't know what hubs you have, might be able to save some there but not much.

Maybe it's all in that mystery seat post?

Unless you have a specific reason for trying to make the bike lighter don't bother.
 

since 4/10/2009
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That's weird, I thought there's weight to be saved on the rims and maybe hubs.
I guess there's no magic :D
I mean, there's potential weight to be saved. But there comes a point where you're going to start spending quite a lot more for it without sacrificing capability.

On my bike, outside of the frame itself, which is a pretty stout steel frame (which I like, anyway, so not planning to change it), tires and rims are the main possible spots I could save weight. For most of my riding, changing the tires would sacrifice capability, though, and I'm not willing to do that. I could change tires situationally and put lighter treads on for xc rides (also hanging up the insert for lighter duty rides), but doing so is kinda onerous.

What's left would be the rims. Also given where I ride, how I ride, and how much I weigh, I went with a 32t wheel build for durability. It's holding up great. Maybe I could get away with a 28h wheel build, at least up front, but that actually wouldn't save all that much weight given I'm using good double-butted spokes. The rims themselves are aluminum DT Swiss XM481 29er rims (525g/ea). Yeah, I could save some weight there. I could get narrower rims (and narrower tires) and drop some weight. But then I'd lose some capability that I like. I could switch to a quality carbon rim (a much less expensive carbon rim won't save the same weight for the same capability), but then the expense starts shooting up. I put good hubs on it already (I9 Hydra), so while I could probably find lighter hubs, it's not going to be huge.

I could save a little weight with a carbon cockpit, but again, getting into extra expense. Could probably have found a lighter 140mm fork than an MRP Ribbon. But I made that particular choice based on price. Could have installed lighter brakes than the Dominion A4's I have, but that would have reduced braking performance some. And I'm quite liking the Dominions, tbh. Could have installed lighter cranks than the RF Turbines I chose. But I chose those based on reliability (and cost, as going much lighter there starts to cost a good bit more as it gets into carbon and Ti options). For an alu crank, the turbines are reasonably lightweight. I could have saved a bit of weight on my drivetrain (mostly the cassette) if I'd gone SRAM instead of Shimano XTR. But I have a slight preference for Shimano there. I could have adapted to SRAM, but I also would have spent more for it (those lightweight SRAM cassettes are kinda spensive), though spreading the cost out over the life of the cassette probably would be less. I probably could have chosen a lighter dropper, too, instead of the 150mm OneUp V1 dropper I chose. But I chose that post specifically to maximize drop for the space I had. I also like that it's easy to service on my own. So that choice was a functionality choice.

Weight was a consideration for me, but it was never the top consideration in my component choices. I was considering other factors, too. Sure, I could have built a hardtail with similar specs at a lower weight. The bike as it sits weighs about 32lbs and I'm sure I could find 5lbs to cut from it without too much trouble. But it would be a totally different bike from what I actually got (and a much more expensive one), even though on paper, the spec sheets would make the bikes look very similar to each other. And I like what I got.

This bike isn't built to be fast on the climbs. It's maybe a little faster than my previous one, but it actually weighs a pound or two more, so it's not faster because of weight. If I wanted a bike that helped me be fast on climbs, I definitely would have chosen something else entirely. This bike's purpose is to be solid, reliable, and fun. And yes, I sacrificed some weight for that.

And reliability is exactly why bike weights have crept upwards in general over the past 10-15yrs. I remember the 90's when my riding buddies were breaking all their lightweight stuff. Some guys I knew in the midwest gave up on the typical xc gear and started using downhill parts because they broke stuff so often. And it's not because they rode in the gnar. I was a beginner back then, so I wasn't riding any of the super light xc race parts.

For me, what's interesting is that my bike weights haven't changed much at all over that time. My beginner bikes (if I weighed them) were probably around 30lbs. The first bike I know I weighed was about 17yrs ago, and it was about 30-31lbs. I've spent more on all my successive bikes, and yet they all have weighed about the same. Probably within a pound or two. Yet those bikes have been able to handle more and more, and helped me feel more confident along the way. That's pretty rad, IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter #58
Yea, it's only theorycrafting by me, I don't intend to touch the bike unless something wears or breaks.
The wheels are 29". Hubs are supposedly Novatec D791SSB + D462SB, boost and centerlock obviously. Couldn't find these models anywhere, maybe the names were mistyped or something.

Pro Koryak something seatpost, no idea who makes that.
 

since 4/10/2009
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Yea, it's only theorycrafting by me, I don't intend to touch the bike unless something wears or breaks.
The wheels are 29". Hubs are supposedly Novatec D791SSB + D462SB, boost and centerlock obviously. Couldn't find these models anywhere, maybe the names were mistyped or something.

Pro Koryak something seatpost, no idea who makes that.
Pretty sure Pro is a Shimano component brand.

I'm sure those hubs are OEM hubs you won't be able to find anywhere else. Novatec makes respectable bits and some really cheap bits. There are benefits to be had from a hub upgrade, but weight won't be the biggest one there.
 

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I have Ralph and Ron for summer season or easy terrain riding, the Nobbies are for shitty weather and maybe more difficult trails (but I don't ever ride any extremes so they will work well enough I bet).
I rode rented Trek's Top Fuel 8 this summer and it was super light and awesome, but after checking the specs, I know where the 2kg+went. Shitty fork and shock, and the rims are most probably junk too.

Haven't gotten to riding it yet, it's all muddy as **** in the lowlands here, so I'll wait until after new year, hoping for some frostier temps.

I might swap the XT bottom bracket for XTR one since it supposedly has better bearings and lower friction, but otherwise screw it. I have a hardtail for distance hunting. That one I will lighten a little bit more, but it's already like 12,7kg anyway.
Replacing the BB with xtr is a total waste of money. You will not notice any difference. BB's are consumables. Ride it until it's worn out then replace it with an slx or deore.

Regarding bike weight, sure you could throw a bunch of money at it for lighter parts, but you are way better off just riding it and getting stronger. My FS bike is 35 pounds, and I climb everything on it.
 
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