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Someone explain expensive hubs to me please?

2634 Views 26 Replies 16 Participants Last post by Scott_in_Jersey, Jan 15, 2010

trhoppe

Discussion Starter · Jan 9, 2010

I have a 2010 Fuel EX8. Came with a Shimano M-525 hubs.

What is the main difference between these hubs and for example, a Shimano XT and then a Hope Pro 2?

I can get both XT hubs for $100 total. The Hope Pro 2 that I need (QR front and rear) are $200 total. They seem to be the same weight. What does double the price get me here? Longevity? Better materials?

I'm debating the upgrade to the XT before the M-525 wear out really, as its $100 for 300 grams of weight savings :thumbsup: Is it worth the extra $100 to go with Hope Pro 2?

-Tom

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Pableras

· #2 · Jan 9, 2010

Well, it depends.

Generally, an expensive hub will be lighter, smoother, better constructed and will feature more points of engagement and better bearings.

The difference is specially noticeable when we're talking about rear hubs. M-525 is a very unreliable hub beacuse of its freewheel mecanism, which is basically...crap. Rear Xt is a great improvement from a M-525.

Shimano use cup-&-cone bearings, which some people dislike; but they're cheap and easy to service.

Front hubs, IMO, are basically the same, some may be lighter and roll better (it's very diffcult to notice drag on a hub), and some may feature better seals and bearings.

Hope's are more expensive because they are better manufactured, use sealed bearings a better freewheel and are fully serviceable.

IMO XT's are a great for the money.

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denjen

· #3 · Jan 9, 2010

trhoppe said:
I have a 2010 Fuel EX8. Came with a Shimano M-525 hubs.

What is the main difference between these hubs and for example, a Shimano XT and then a Hope Pro 2?

I can get both XT hubs for $100 total. The Hope Pro 2 that I need (QR front and rear) are $200 total. They seem to be the same weight. What does double the price get me here? Longevity? Better materials?

I'm debating the upgrade to the XT before the M-525 wear out really, as its $100 for 300 grams of weight savings :thumbsup: Is it worth the extra $100 to go with Hope Pro 2?

-Tom

Where are you finding Hopes for $200 for the set?

ae111black

· #4 · Jan 9, 2010

Pableras said:
The difference is specially noticeable when we're talking about rear hubs. M-525 is a very unreliable hub beacuse of its freewheel mecanism, which is basically...crap. Rear Xt is a great improvement from a M-525.
IMO XT's are a great for the money.

What's the diffrence in XT-Deore level freehubs? I thought they were the same.....I've serviced both and bunches in between and they all seemed the same to me! I haven't done metalurgy tests or did any weighing of parts but they all seemed the same! I know the cups and cones on the accual hub were diffrent (finer finish) but the free hub.......?

Please show me the diffrence!

trhoppe

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jan 9, 2010

Thanks for the advice so far. I'm curious on the xt stuff since I saw the 2n post.

As far as the hope stuff, I thought both the front and the rear were $100 and it seems the rear is 200 and the front is 100.

Makes me even more curious on te xt. $100 is impulse buy territory while $300 is a little much

Pableras

· #6 · Jan 9, 2010

ae111black said:
What's the diffrence in XT-Deore level freehubs? I thought they were the same.....I've serviced both and bunches in between and they all seemed the same to me! I haven't done metalurgy tests or did any weighing of parts but they all seemed the same! I know the cups and cones on the accual hub were diffrent (finer finish) but the free hub.......?

Please show me the diffrence!

Well, the main difference is that some last a lot and some not. :thumbsup:

They're just not the same, Xt's (756) freehub body is lighter, sounds cleaner, is better sealed from water, lasts longer,... If you look at the spec sheet at Shimano site you'll notice that the reference is not the same for each one (Deore: http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/t...FH/EV-FH-M525-2067A_v1_m56577569830608928.pdf ; Xt. http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/t...H/EV-FH-M756-2099A_v1_m56577569830608935.pdf).

One of my friends experimented the same as me with a rear M-525: At first it worked well, then it went silent but kept working, then it got stuck and he had to replace the freehub (which is not always worth since shimano freehubs cost almost the same as the whole hub).

trhoppeblack said:
Thanks for the advice so far. I'm curious on the xt stuff since I saw the 2n post.

As far as the hope stuff, I thought both the front and the rear were $100 and it seems the rear is 200 and the front is 100.

Makes me even more curious on te xt. $100 is impulse buy territory while $300 is a little much.

If deores worked for you I'm sure the Xt will fill your needs.

ae111black

· #7 · Jan 10, 2010

Pableras said:
(Deore: http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/t...FH/EV-FH-M525-2067A_v1_m56577569830608928.pdf ; Xt. http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/t...H/EV-FH-M756-2099A_v1_m56577569830608935.pdf).

.

the deore one worked but the XT one got me this....
Error 404--Not Found

One Pivot

· #8 · Jan 10, 2010

i have a few deore hubs that just wont die.. they've been reliable, but they're so sloppy they feel like hell (low engagement), the bearings, cones, races and seals are poorly finished.. they're 25 dollar hubs and they feel like it!

the new xt's are nice. even the 6 bolt xt's were pretty good. they fixed the weak freehub issue.. all in all, the xt hub is as good or better than pro 2, except its heavier. i prefer the pro2's sealed bearing configuration, but theres not really anything wrong with cup/cone.

you can also get the chin haur/wtb/american classic hubs off ebay for about 175 bucks. lighter than all and decent quality.

Pableras

· #9 · Jan 10, 2010

ae111black said:
the deore one worked but the XT one got me this....
Error 404--Not Found

Sorry: http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/t...FH/EV-FH-M756-2099A_v1_m56577569830608935.pdf

shiggy

· #10 · Jan 10, 2010

Pableras said:
One of my friends experimented the same as me with a rear M-525: At first it worked well, then it went silent but kept working, then it got stuck and he had to replace the freehub (which is not always worth since shimano freehubs cost almost the same as the whole hub).

Not if you need to rebuild the wheel to replace the hub.

The differences between the 6-bolt Deore and XT hubs is mostly finish, an extra internal seal in the XT and the Deore axles are threaded the whole length (cheaper). No weight difference. Either should be repacked and adjusted before first use and serviced regularly. They then will last many years.

The current XT 770-series hubs are different. Aluminum axles, quicker engagement freehub, Centerlock-only (for the disc version), lighter. Still should be repacked and adjusted from new, as with any loose ball hub.

The advantage of the Hub Pro II hubs is versatility. Unlike the Shimanos, the Hopes can be converted to use any of the current axle types (though 135 and 150mm rear spaced hubs use different shells). Cartridge bearings can be easier to live with, are easily replaceable and the hub does not have bearing races that would require the whole thing to be replaced if damaged. Add in the color choices, smaller production volume, and UK manufacturing and the price is higher.

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shiggy

· #11 · Jan 10, 2010

trhoppe said:
Thanks for the advice so far. I'm curious on the xt stuff since I saw the 2n post.

As far as the hope stuff, I thought both the front and the rear were $100 and it seems the rear is 200 and the front is 100.

Makes me even more curious on te xt. $100 is impulse buy territory while $300 is a little much

Quick price comparisons:

From Jenson USA
XT 6-bolt: front, $44; rear, $56
XT 775: f N/A; r $85
Hope Pro II: f $100; r $240

From Chain Reaction Cycles
XT 6-bolt: Front $42; rear $49
XT 775: $45; r $70
Hope: f $67; r $167

trhoppe

Discussion Starter · #12 · Jan 10, 2010

I need the 6-bolt hubs, so it looks like I'm going to go with the Hope Pro 2. I'll have a lighter and more serviceable hub and better to boot.

Chain Reaction Cycles is CHEAP though! $250 for the Hope Pro 2 hubs and if I throw another $100 in, I can get a whole wheelset with Mavic XC717 rims. Interesting.

-Tom

shiggy

· #13 · Jan 10, 2010

trhoppe said:
I need the 6-bolt hubs, so it looks like I'm going to go with the Hope Pro 2. I'll have a lighter and more serviceable hub and better to boot.

Chain Reaction Cycles is CHEAP though! $250 for the Hope Pro 2 hubs and if I throw another $100 in, I can get a whole wheelset with Mavic XC717 rims. Interesting.

-Tom

CRC is a UK company and is able to offer the UK-made Hope products at a great price.

Shipping is "free" when you get to the wheelset prices.

chas_martel

· #14 · Jan 10, 2010

To the OP'er.

Don't overlook the increased POE of the more expensive hubs. Some cheaper hubs have
very low number of POE.

trhoppe

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jan 10, 2010

Thanks for that! Apparently $250 is free shipping land, so just the Hope hubs qualify. Sweet!

So in the end, sounds like the Deore hubs ain't so far, especially compared to the 6-bolt XT ones. I guess the current plan for me will be to wait until I either break the Deore hubs, or until the freehub starts to suck, and then I'll spring for the Hope Pro 2 from CRC.

-Tom

jeffw-13

· #16 · Jan 10, 2010

Be aware that the Hope rear hub is pretty loud with the buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz in the freehub. Personally, I love it.

Bikinfoolferlife

· #17 · Jan 11, 2010

trhoppe said:
Thanks for that! Apparently $250 is free shipping land, so just the Hope hubs qualify. Sweet!

So in the end, sounds like the Deore hubs ain't so far, especially compared to the 6-bolt XT ones. I guess the current plan for me will be to wait until I either break the Deore hubs, or until the freehub starts to suck, and then I'll spring for the Hope Pro 2 from CRC.

-Tom

So you're planning to rebuild the wheels yourself? How about the cost of new spokes? Your Deore hubs will be fine with preventative and ongoing maintenance as has been pointed out...

ps The weight of a hub isn't very important in terms of the wheel as a whole, the rotating weight of the rim/tire is a bigger consideration than that of the hub itself.

One Pivot

· #18 · Jan 11, 2010

you can use centerlock to 6 bolt adapters for the new xt hubs.

mightymouse

· #19 · Jan 11, 2010

trhoppe said:
I have a 2010 Fuel EX8. Came with a Shimano M-525 hubs.

-Tom

Hey Tom, did you happen to throw your front and rear wheel on a scale before changing anything out? I'd love to know what they weigh.

Zanetti

· #20 · Jan 12, 2010

Keep in mind that the Shimano hub listed weights include the skewer, and most aftermarket hubs do not.

I built a front wheel recently with a Shimano M756 hub, and the hub alone without the skewer weighed about 235g. The skewer alone was a little over 60g.

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