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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
With several rides and close to 150 miles on my rebuilt Fox Float with AVA sleeve and PUSH Industries mods I'm still very impressed with how well this shock performs when sitting and pedalling over rough terrain and climbing. It also shines on landing from jumps and drops (like landing on a bed of marshmellows).

A couple of things I've noticed that it does a little worse (maybe just different) than my plain Fox float. The stable platform seems to get surprised by some sharp edged rocks or bumps after going along a smooth section and doesn't react at all, especially if I stand to unweight the rear wheel a little just before hitting it. Standing on rougher downs also seems to make the action more harsh unless I put my weight further back and keep the weight on the seat more. It's almost like it's set up for a heavier rider.

Are these just setup issues? If so, what can I do to improve this part of the performance? Or do I just have to adapt my riding style to more seat time?
 

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Black Lion
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KRob said:
With several rides and close to 150 miles on my rebuilt Fox Float with AVA sleeve and PUSH Industries mods I'm still very impressed with how well this shock performs when sitting and pedalling over rough terrain and climbing. It also shines on landing from jumps and drops (like landing on a bed of marshmellows).

A couple of things I've noticed that it does a little worse (maybe just different) than my plain Fox float. The stable platform seems to get surprised by some sharp edged rocks or bumps after going along a smooth section and doesn't react at all, especially if I stand to unweight the rear wheel a little just before hitting it. Standing on rougher downs also seems to make the action more harsh unless I put my weight further back and keep the weight on the seat more. It's almost like it's set up for a heavier rider.

Are these just setup issues? If so, what can I do to improve this part of the performance? Or do I just have to adapt my riding style to more seat time?
talk to them and they will do whatever it takes to make the shock feel the way you want it to. They are great woth support.
 

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I have also noted one feature of my PUSHed Fox Vanilla-R. Going up very steep and loamy, almost sandy, hills, the shock seems to loose all platform damping. There are not too many of those so I don't worry to much about it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The Squeaky Wheel said:
have you rechecked the sag since having it PUSH'd?

My shock requires 15 less PSI than before for the same sag.
Yes. It took about 90# for 7/16th" of sag instead of the 102# in the old shock. I've also tried lower air pressure (85# for 1/2" of sag) which seemed to help with small bump compliance but now that I think about it, that may be when I started noticing the spike on sharper hits and a slight increase in pedal stall over sharper edges. I've got the AVA chamber set on 2. Could I be bottoming? Maybe I'll go back to 90#. Or should I increase the air spring rate? (AVA on 3)

Are these symptoms inherent in a stable platform design?
 

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Bodhisattva
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The hardest thing for any shock to handle is square-edged sharp hits and you may be noticing the one limitation although I can't say that I've been bothered by it. If by pedal stall you mean suspension-induced pedal feedback then I can say that I've never felt it on my HH (but it drives me nuts on monopivot designs).

I highly doubt you're bottoming the shock with the AVA set to 2 and proper preload.

Try playing around with PSI & AVA setting. I had no trouble bottoming the shock even at AVA 4, but got a little nervous and dropped it to 2.5 and I'm quite pleased. Don't fuss around with too much at once or you won't be able to tell what's working & what's not.
Lastly, you can always call PUSH.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The Squeaky Wheel said:
The hardest thing for any shock to handle is square-edged sharp hits and you may be noticing the one limitation although I can't say that I've been bothered by it. If by pedal stall you mean suspension-induced pedal feedback then I can say that I've never felt it on my HH (but it drives me nuts on monopivot designs).

I highly doubt you're bottoming the shock with the AVA set to 2 and proper preload.

Try playing around with PSI & AVA setting. I had no trouble bottoming the shock even at AVA 4, but got a little nervous and dropped it to 2.5 and I'm quite pleased. Don't fuss around with too much at once or you won't be able to tell what's working & what's not.
Lastly, you can always call PUSH.
Yes, suspension induced pedal feedback. I don't think I ever noticed it with the stock Fox float but it seems to be there ever so slightly with the PUSHed/ AVA Float when climbing over sharp or square edged rocks/roots. So this is not an inherent quality (shortcoming?) of a stable platform?

I agree. I don't think it's bottoming either.

On the AVA sleeve: So bigger number equals more air volume, lower spring rate, and more likely to bottom? This seems backwards from what Homebrew is telling me here:

" The "increase" and "decrease" listed on the sticker are referring to spring rate not volume. As you dial the adjuster inward exposing more threads, you are making the air volume smaller and increasing the spring rate (more ramp up). Even dialed out like your shock is now, it probably won't bottom out hard without a huge hit. I am more concerned with wear and tear on the shock bushings and the longer term effects of repetitive smaller impacts rather than the occasional big whack. Per Charles and others, you really need to keep it on the smaller half of the scale in terms of volume (between 3 and 5 on the dial) to play it safe." Homebrew

Maybe my sticker is on backwards or am I just being really retarded (a definite possiblity)?
 

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Do It Yourself
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KRob said:
Yes, suspension induced pedal feedback. I don't think I ever noticed it with the stock Fox float but it seems to be there ever so slightly with the PUSHed/ AVA Float when climbing over sharp or square edged rocks/roots. So this is not an inherent quality (shortcoming?) of a stable platform?

I agree. I don't think it's bottoming either.

On the AVA sleeve: So bigger number equals more air volume, lower spring rate, and more likely to bottom? This seems backwards from what Homebrew is telling me here:

" The "increase" and "decrease" listed on the sticker are referring to spring rate not volume. As you dial the adjuster inward exposing more threads, you are making the air volume smaller and increasing the spring rate (more ramp up). Even dialed out like your shock is now, it probably won't bottom out hard without a huge hit. I am more concerned with wear and tear on the shock bushings and the longer term effects of repetitive smaller impacts rather than the occasional big whack. Per Charles and others, you really need to keep it on the smaller half of the scale in terms of volume (between 3 and 5 on the dial) to play it safe." Homebrew

Maybe my sticker is on backwards or am I just being really retarded (a definite possiblity)?
If the hits you are feeling are slow speed, which they probably are with climbing, then it's certainly a possiblility that it may be inherent to the platform. The platform is just higher slow speed compression damping with a blowoff threshold. So if the hit doesn't cause the shock speed to be high enough and the hit isn't hard enough to blow past the threshold, that's what the platform is supposed to do. The square-edged hits should be better with the AVA than with the standard Float due to less ramp up. The Horst link provides minimal chain torque so it isn't pedal stall. This happens on high single pivots like my old Superlight because the suspension pulls on the chain (and vice versa). The RX doesn't do that no matter the shock.

On the AVA, I'm not sure what numbers people are using but the default position with no threads showing is the maximum volume and most linear setting. Dialing the shock away from that position, exposing threads is decreasing the size of the air chamber and increasing progression. See the pic from Fox below:


https://www.foxracingshox.com/website/TechnologyDesc.asp?Market=MBike&CategoryId=15&Id=3&count=1
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The Squeaky Wheel said:
I agree with Homebrew with all of the above including the AVA sleeve.

If the platform is too stiff then send it back to PUSH and ask them to make it a bit lighter.
Gotcha. Thanks. This seems to make sense. The platform blowoff threshold may be too stiff. I'll talk to Darren at Push tomorrow. First I'm going to try the AVA sleeve at 3.
 

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Quick question for KRob and anyone else here...

On ordering, what riding style did you use? My Floats currently being build and I selected "aggressive trail riding" on the order form. I'm curious how this would differ from xc versus free ride? Is it all a matter of plushness? Would a xc setup be a harsher ride?

I'll call PUSH tomorrow and ask, but thought I'd also look for suggestions.

Thanks, Matt
 

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<sL4yEr>RuLz said:
My Floats currently being build and I selected "aggressive trail riding" on the order form.
That's the same setting I asked for. Works good for me. I think it's a good middle ground setting. But definitely give them a call to discuss.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
<sL4yEr>RuLz said:
On ordering, what riding style did you use? My Floats currently being build and I selected "aggressive trail riding" on the order form. I'm curious how this would differ from xc versus free ride? Is it all a matter of plushness? Would a xc setup be a harsher ride?

I'll call PUSH tomorrow and ask, but thought I'd also look for suggestions.

Thanks, Matt
Yeah, I also put aggressive trail riding on my form, but either I just don't like having a stable platform all the time or I over estimated my weight, or I ride lighter on my bike than most, or PUSH overestimated how stiff I'd like it because in some situations as described above it feels too stiff.
 

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Sitting in the same boat

I am in the process of sending a Ava float R to Push , but dont know what settings to take on my SB. was thinking that trail riding would be sorta in the middle .. and XC racing giving the harshest ride and freeriding the plushest with least amount of platform.
Hope Trail will work in all situations ... Another big problem is my weight is keeps changing , from 75kg to 82 back to 75 depending on the season ... so I think I should just set it at 80 ... ?
anyone else have this problem ?
 

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OK... I just got of the phone with Darren and addressed my above questions.
1. XC versus Aggressive Trail: Obviously, plusher ride with aggressive. My rides usually consist of 2-4 ft. drops/jumps, technical, twisty and a lot of climbing. This setup sounds like a happy medium.
2. Rider weight: I specified 165ish on order, with about 10 lbs. of gear. They'll build to 170 lbs. Darren said 5 lbs +/- isn't going to make a difference. In other words, don't gain 20 over the holidays. :D
3. Setup upon install: Drop 5-10 less than original. (I think I was at 160 before.) Set rebound, and thats it!

Can't wait to get it back!
 

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The Squeaky Wheel said:
have you rechecked the sag since having it PUSH'd?

My shock requires 15 less PSI than before for the same sag.
Maybe PUSH use a higher nitrogen pressure than FOX. I know fox used to run 200psi, I've always gone for 250psi with my rebuilds.
 

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Dougal said:
Maybe PUSH use a higher nitrogen pressure than FOX. I know fox used to run 200psi, I've always gone for 250psi with my rebuilds.
they most certainly do (they admitted it on another site), but..it wasn't much more...maybe 10-20% more at the most, i dont remember the exact figs.
 
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