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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Looking to build a 6 inch all mountain, gnarly trail bike that can climb and handle any down and drop I'll throw at it. I've read a bunch about these three bikes and a couple of head to head comparisons from interbike and a couple in the manufacturer's forums, but I haven't seen a complete three way comparison yet. Has anyone had some time on all three? Seems like Esquire from BB was going to post a comparo, but I haven't seen it yet.

It looks like I might be in between sizes for the 6.6 and Nomad so would really need to ride them in the M and L to know for sure, but the med Pack/RFX looks like it should fit just right. I'm already a fan of the four (faux.... I'm not dissuaded by the TNT) bar link, legendary geometry, CS, and build quality of the Turner, but have read nothing but good things about the two VPP offerings as well. From a couple of the Interbike reviews, I'm leaning more towards the 6.6 than the Nomad but those impressions may have been skewed by set up and/or fork selection issues.

If you've ridden all three and care to give me a run down of what you've found (or at least a link to a thread I've missed), I'm all ears.

Thanks.
 

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It is kind of funny that some people find the Nomad "too slack" compared to a 6pack. Mind you I have never tried any of these bikes so I'm no reference.

The Nomad has a 68 head angle with a 522mm axle to crown fork and Turner publishes the 6pack at 68 head angle also but does not give the fork measurement. However even assuming a 150mm fork for the 68 HA of the 6pack, it would put the Nomad at about only half a degree slacker. Maybe it's the seat angle of the Nomad that makes people find it slacker because it puts the rider more towards the back but if that's the case then you just use a strait Thomson and you've corrected that aspect.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
tscheezy said:
I guess you saw my Interbike writeup, but maybe not this more recent thread?
Yeah, thanks tscheezy. I did read all your interbike reports (thanks for those, btw, they are outstanding), and I had read that other thread in the Turner forum which was helpful. There's been a few comparisons over on the Intense board as well, but no all out three-way shootout. Have any of the mags done one of these, or online bike review sites?

From everything I've read so far, I'm leaning towards the 6.6 (over the Nomad), but I may have a sizing issue. I'm 5' 11.5". My inseam is 32, but I don't really have a long torso either (large pelvic girdle I guess makes up the extra height :rolleyes: ).. kinda average lenght arms (32.5 sleeves) and currently ride a 23" HH100x that fits pretty well.

Wish I could ride 'em. It looks like the Intense (and SC) sizing runs small (22.8 for the med), but 23.8 for the large sounds a bit big for me.
The Turner RFX/SixPack Medium fits right in between these at 23.4. Though it's about a pound heavier and maybe not as plush feeling(?)

What do you think about the Moment and the new Supermoto? A couple more stellar 6" bikes on my list.
 

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The SuperMoto is damn cool. Both times I have been on it I really enjoyed the ride. As for the Moment, it feels more xc to me than any of the others (took a spin on one with a 36 Talas) though the fact that it had a long stem contributed to this sensation. I would suggest calling Go-Ride as I believe they sell all the models in question (well, they refuse to carry Ells) and they like to try out the new rigs in the shop.

As for the HA's, The Pack is designed around a 150-170mm fork, and my Pack measures 68.5 degrees with a Z1 FR1 installed. With a Van 36 or Boxxer Ride you would get 68 or under. The SC seems to hit those numbers with a much shorter fork (Pike? -someone would have ot measure for sure), so putting a taller fork on tips the bike back a lot. Intense seems to like steep HA's so putting a longer fork on does not seem rack the bike out as badly. Again, someone would have to measure.
 

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tscheezy said:
As for the HA's, The Pack is designed around a 150-170mm fork, and my Pack measures 68.5 degrees with a Z1 FR1 installed. With a Van 36 or Boxxer Ride you would get 68 or under. The SC seems to hit those numbers with a much shorter fork (Pike? -someone would have ot measure for sure), so putting a taller fork on tips the bike back a lot. Intense seems to like steep HA's so putting a longer fork on does not seem rack the bike out as badly. Again, someone would have to measure.
So that probably explains it. Unfortunately Turner does not mention the AtoC length in their published 68 degree head angle on the 6pack but SantaCruz says 522mm AtoC for their 68 degree on the Nomad. So yes, then with the same fork on both bikes they probably have 1 degree difference, the Nomad being slacker. Thanks for the info Tscheezy.
 

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KRob said:
Looking to build a 6 inch all mountain, gnarly trail bike that can climb and handle any down and drop I'll throw at it. I've read a bunch about these three bikes and a couple of head to head comparisons from interbike and a couple in the manufacturer's forums, but I haven't seen a complete three way comparison yet. Has anyone had some time on all three? Seems like Esquire from BB was going to post a comparo, but I haven't seen it yet.

It looks like I might be in between sizes for the 6.6 and Nomad so would really need to ride them in the M and L to know for sure, but the med Pack/RFX looks like it should fit just right. I'm already a fan of the four (faux.... I'm not dissuaded by the TNT) bar link, legendary geometry, CS, and build quality of the Turner, but have read nothing but good things about the two VPP offerings as well. From a couple of the Interbike reviews, I'm leaning more towards the 6.6 than the Nomad but those impressions may have been skewed by set up and/or fork selection issues.

If you've ridden all three and care to give me a run down of what you've found (or at least a link to a thread I've missed), I'm all ears.

Thanks.
Check with AApling72. He was on a pack (medium) and sold it to get Nomad after riding a friends only to later decide the 6.6 geometry looked better.

The bearing issues on the VPP bikes appears to be a maintenance nightmare.
 

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SSINGA said:
Check with AApling72. He was on a pack (medium) and sold it to get Nomad after riding a friends only to later decide the 6.6 geometry looked better.

The bearing issues on the VPP bikes appears to be a maintenance nightmare.
I'm not sure aapling72 is a reference that much. I think he has an unwritten objective of buying every all mountain bling frames that exist plus all the coil shocks to try out on them. However, I really like the fact that aapling72 buys all these frames. It is great to read his feedback, even if, not necessarily objective considering the guys buying reputation!
:D :D :D

In my mind VPP bearing issues could also be a big show of something that is not that much of a problem for most riders. Considering Intense quality reputation (and SantaCruz as well), I would be surprised if this issue is as big as some people seem to make it look like, not to say it doesn't exist at all by the way.
 

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BanzaiRider said:
I'm not sure aapling72 is a reference that much. I think he has an unwritten objective of buying every all mountain bling frames that exist plus all the coil shocks to try out on them. However, I really like the fact that aapling72 buys all these frames. It is great to read his feedback, even if, not necessarily objective considering the guys buying reputation!
:D :D :D

In my mind VPP bearing issues could also be a big show of something that is not that much of a problem for most riders. Considering Intense quality reputation (and SantaCruz as well), I would be surprised if this issue is as big as some people seem to make it look like, not to say it doesn't exist at all by the way.
Well, not sure if that is a compliment or not, but I won't take offense. YEs, I have had a nice surplus lately in the UGI fund, but that is coming to a close soon. So, I'll explain to hopefully justify my actions and not lose credibility here. Actually my objective is to find a frame and shock combo that feels good to me. I wasn't completely satisfied with the 6 pack using the DHX or Avy(Avy feeling the best in comparison) because they felt a little choppy over roots and high speed stutters. The Nomad I rode, felt more supple with an air shock. So, I thought with a coil, this thing will really feel right. It was that VPP plush feel, which I have kiind of always preferred. It was just a little to slack with a Zocchi 66 Light. After reading a few posts mentioning that, I decided to go with the Intense 6.6 since that bike is going to be a trail bike for me, where the Uzzi is more aggressive trail/FR/DH stuff. Although the Uzzi pedals extremely well, and I have ridden it on some major climbs around here it wasn't too bad at 38lbs. So I think I'm set for now after this crazy buying and selling spree. I usually keep bikes for about a year and sell them anyway, sometimes longer. This actually might change for these two though due to $$$ shortage and the fact that if the 6.6 is anything like the Uzzi outfitted with the Cane Creek Double Barrel then these will have a home for a while.

Which leads to the pivots bearing issue. I have a bearing puller and press and have used it a couple of times. Where I find the bearing thing to be an issue is if you don't repack them often enough. The grease in BB's is loaded with a polymer that once the grease is gone turns into a hard substance that will restrict movement. Then there is no water repellent so rust sets in. If you just take the seals off every now and then and flush them out blow dry them and repack them they will last forever. Granted the bushings on my 6 pack really did kick the maintenance of bearings in the butt for ease of care, but there is going to always be something to fix. And if you're like me half of the fun of this sport is wrenching on my bike. I like doing that sometimes as much as riding. OK, I like riding more but wrenching can be fun. It's kind of a mental release to sit in the work area with you and your bike and all your parts and take everything down to pieces, clean it like crazy, lube it or loctite it and then put it back together only to find you left out a washer.LOLOL. Seriously, this is a fun hobby for me. So, yeah I buy a bike then sell it or find something new, but ultimately it's all for fun. I just went through a little bike benge for a while. So, if you want to capitalize on my benge of bike tests cool. Objective , I think so, since I'm not partial to one brand. I am partial to what feels good to me. And that's the way the cookie crumbles!
 

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aappling72 said:
Well, not sure if that is a compliment or not, but I won't take offense. YEs, I have had a nice surplus lately in the UGI fund, but that is coming to a close soon. So, I'll explain to hopefully justify my actions and not lose credibility here. Actually my objective is to find a frame and shock combo that feels good to me. I wasn't completely satisfied with the 6 pack using the DHX or Avy(Avy feeling the best in comparison) because they felt a little choppy over roots and high speed stutters. The Nomad I rode, felt more supple with an air shock. So, I thought with a coil, this thing will really feel right. It was that VPP plush feel, which I have kiind of always preferred. It was just a little to slack with a Zocchi 66 Light. After reading a few posts mentioning that, I decided to go with the Intense 6.6 since that bike is going to be a trail bike for me, where the Uzzi is more aggressive trail/FR/DH stuff. Although the Uzzi pedals extremely well, and I have ridden it on some major climbs around here it wasn't too bad at 38lbs. So I think I'm set for now after this crazy buying and selling spree. I usually keep bikes for about a year and sell them anyway, sometimes longer. This actually might change for these two though due to $$$ shortage and the fact that if the 6.6 is anything like the Uzzi outfitted with the Cane Creek Double Barrel then these will have a home for a while.

Which leads to the pivots bearing issue. I have a bearing puller and press and have used it a couple of times. Where I find the bearing thing to be an issue is if you don't repack them often enough. The grease in BB's is loaded with a polymer that once the grease is gone turns into a hard substance that will restrict movement. Then there is no water repellent so rust sets in. If you just take the seals off every now and then and flush them out blow dry them and repack them they will last forever. Granted the bushings on my 6 pack really did kick the maintenance of bearings in the butt for ease of care, but there is going to always be something to fix. And if you're like me half of the fun of this sport is wrenching on my bike. I like doing that sometimes as much as riding. OK, I like riding more but wrenching can be fun. It's kind of a mental release to sit in the work area with you and your bike and all your parts and take everything down to pieces, clean it like crazy, lube it or loctite it and then put it back together only to find you left out a washer.LOLOL. Seriously, this is a fun hobby for me. So, yeah I buy a bike then sell it or find something new, but ultimately it's all for fun. I just went through a little bike benge for a while. So, if you want to capitalize on my benge of bike tests cool. Objective , I think so, since I'm not partial to one brand. I am partial to what feels good to me. And that's the way the cookie crumbles!
Im glad to hear that Im not alone with (holding candle under chin) UGI. Yes, like you Im searching for the perfect ride, this year alone, after selling the Bullit and 575, I bought and sold the 6 Pack and the Uzzi VPX. I only sold the VPX to bring up the funds to buy another frame. I really liked the ride of the VPX, and it pedaled so well and is a super fun bike to ride, it was fairly light at 35 pounds with a 05 66 and it could have been lighter with the Fox Van36, but as usual I want to try the newest and lasted stuff. 6.6 inches of travel, and several pounds lighter sounds like a great bike! Im hoping that the 6.6 will be sort of a mini me version of the VPX. If all else fails, then the 06 RFX will be the "fail safe frame to get". I did like the 6 Pack, no issues for me with the TNT change, the only thing for me is that I have to add alot of spacers under the stem to get the feel I like on the Turner, its a real short headtube I guess, and thats with a long travel fork too. The VPX felt fine and I only used 1 5mm spacer. The Pack felt more "trailbikeish" if I didnt raise the front end. That does mean that I will have to use the longer forks on the 6.6 but for me thats a major plus! (Im from the ole MX throttle twisting days here)

I bet it will be hard to dislike any of the three bikes you listed to buy, I removed the Nomad off the list after the tscheezy bike gawd gave his reviews, I plan (must) on using my beloved Van36 RC2, and if not that fork, a new Marzocchi 66 SL, or lite untill the new 07 RS fork is released next year. Im not a big hit rider, I like the fun stuff at Gooseberry Mesa, or the shuttle runs of Brian Head and Mammoth Mtn. We have several local trails that are fun and the old Pack or the new RFX is still a great bike for this type of riding, the only reason Im going with the Intense is the rear just seems bottomless!
 

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BanzaiRider said:
I'm not sure aapling72 is a reference that much. I think he has an unwritten objective of buying every all mountain bling frames that exist plus all the coil shocks to try out on them. However, I really like the fact that aapling72 buys all these frames. It is great to read his feedback, even if, not necessarily objective considering the guys buying reputation!
:D :D :D

In my mind VPP bearing issues could also be a big show of something that is not that much of a problem for most riders. Considering Intense quality reputation (and SantaCruz as well), I would be surprised if this issue is as big as some people seem to make it look like, not to say it doesn't exist at all by the way.
AA is a good guy, good rider and knows his stuff about MTB. Sure he is a little finicky about his ride but that can be a good quality too (if he only rode a small frame).

I bring up the bearing issue (or non-issue) because it is something a potential buyer needs to be aware of. Mechanical problems, like bearings going bad, always seem to happen before a big ride or race. Maybe you need to keep a spare set on hand as well as purchase the puller and press when you get the frame.

I will admit that the 6.6 is a sexy looking ride but I think I have found the perfect ride for ME in the 6 Pack.
 

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KRob said:
Looking to build a 6 inch all mountain, gnarly trail bike that can climb and handle any down and drop I'll throw at it. I've read a bunch about these three bikes and a couple of head to head comparisons from interbike and a couple in the manufacturer's forums, but I haven't seen a complete three way comparison yet. Has anyone had some time on all three? Seems like Esquire from BB was going to post a comparo, but I haven't seen it yet.

It looks like I might be in between sizes for the 6.6 and Nomad so would really need to ride them in the M and L to know for sure, but the med Pack/RFX looks like it should fit just right. I'm already a fan of the four (faux.... I'm not dissuaded by the TNT) bar link, legendary geometry, CS, and build quality of the Turner, but have read nothing but good things about the two VPP offerings as well. From a couple of the Interbike reviews, I'm leaning more towards the 6.6 than the Nomad but those impressions may have been skewed by set up and/or fork selection issues.

If you've ridden all three and care to give me a run down of what you've found (or at least a link to a thread I've missed), I'm all ears.

Thanks.
No Ventana on the list? Maybe a Bruja or a X-5 with the Bruja rear like Larry @ Mtn High rides. The semi-custom geometry might be what you need to find the perfect bike.
 

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SSINGA said:
AA is a good guy, good rider and knows his stuff about MTB. Sure he is a little finicky about his ride but that can be a good quality too (if he only rode a small frame).

I bring up the bearing issue (or non-issue) because it is something a potential buyer needs to be aware of. Mechanical problems, like bearings going bad, always seem to happen before a big ride or race. Maybe you need to keep a spare set on hand as well as purchase the puller and press when you get the frame.

I will admit that the 6.6 is a sexy looking ride but I think I have found the perfect ride for ME in the 6 Pack.
Thanks Sean. :) I appreciate the accolades.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
SSINGA said:
No Ventana on the list? Maybe a Bruja or a X-5 with the Bruja rear like Larry @ Mtn High rides. The semi-custom geometry might be what you need to find the perfect bike.
I've considered the 5" el salty (HH125x) from Hammerhead, but decided I'd rather keep my HH100x and go bigger as a second bike. Still ride a lot of trails for which the HH is perfect.

I don't care for the look of the X5 although by all counts it's a great bike. I seem to remember that adding the 6inch rockers raises the bottom bracket a bit too much for my tastes and actually steepens the head angle a bit. Maybe this could be remedied with a custom build. I have a lot of respect for Ventana quality and customer service, but I'm a firm believer in a well balanced bike, set up around the travel for which it was intended.
 

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aappling72 said:
Well, not sure if that is a compliment or not, but I won't take offense. YEs, I have had a nice surplus lately in the UGI fund, but that is coming to a close soon. So, I'll explain to hopefully justify my actions and not lose credibility here. Actually my objective is to find a frame and shock combo that feels good to me. I wasn't completely satisfied with the 6 pack using the DHX or Avy(Avy feeling the best in comparison) because they felt a little choppy over roots and high speed stutters. The Nomad I rode, felt more supple with an air shock. So, I thought with a coil, this thing will really feel right. It was that VPP plush feel, which I have kiind of always preferred. It was just a little to slack with a Zocchi 66 Light. After reading a few posts mentioning that, I decided to go with the Intense 6.6 since that bike is going to be a trail bike for me, where the Uzzi is more aggressive trail/FR/DH stuff. Although the Uzzi pedals extremely well, and I have ridden it on some major climbs around here it wasn't too bad at 38lbs. So I think I'm set for now after this crazy buying and selling spree. I usually keep bikes for about a year and sell them anyway, sometimes longer. This actually might change for these two though due to $$$ shortage and the fact that if the 6.6 is anything like the Uzzi outfitted with the Cane Creek Double Barrel then these will have a home for a while.
Man, I think I have to stop reading your posts because my wallet is not as wide as yours and the more I read your stuff the more I think I'm exactly like you with a smaller wallet! hahaha

Well, seriously though, you are starting to convince me that my Banzai may never be plush on the downhill like I'm dreaming of it to be. It will always be a great bike just like the 6pack but maybe it is just not quite what I'm after. It looks like the VPP bikes might be what I'm lusting after without admiting it to myself yet... What surprises me when I write this is the many threads lately showing that suspension design is not that important yet you are confirming the opposite in a sense, you've tried the most sought after bikes mated with the best shocks yet the VPP design seems more plush then the HL/ICT or faux-4bar. It might have other negatives but as far as plushness it seems to win. Did you ever try a Heckler (or similar) and how did it feel versus the VPP? Also, I read that when the VPP is not at sag point, the chain torque either pulls or pushes on the suspension depending on position, do you feel a lot of pedal feedback in rock/root infested uphill?

Thanks, nice chating with you.
 

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I never felt pedal feedback on my VPX, the rear end worked as well as my HL bike and probably pedals better, Im basing this on the fact that I did run alot of sag on the VPX, the bike as almost 2 more inches of travel and yet no unwanted bobbing during hard pedaling.
Infact it has been the only bike that I could stand and power my way up a short steep hill without the frame wallowing in its travel. My HL bike and single pivots all did this for me.

This is the reason that I want to try and spend some time on a 6.6 this next year. I want to make two bikes out of it, general trail riding and as close to a FR bike as I can build it for ski resort days, heavy wheels and maybe a different fork with more travel like a Boxxer DC fork or a 06 170mm 66RC and a M6 front brake and hopefully a Rocco rear shock! I would like to try the Cane Creek Double Barrel shock but I dont know if BTI will be carring them. That shock is basicly made by Oliens (spelling help) and they make some of the finest offroad motorcycle racing shocks in the world.
 

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drumstix said:
I never felt pedal feedback on my VPX, the rear end worked as well as my HL bike and probably pedals better, Im basing this on the fact that I did run alot of sag on the VPX, the bike as almost 2 more inches of travel and yet no unwanted bobbing during hard pedaling.
Infact it has been the only bike that I could stand and power my way up a short steep hill without the frame wallowing in its travel. My HL bike and single pivots all did this for me.

This is the reason that I want to try and spend some time on a 6.6 this next year. I want to make two bikes out of it, general trail riding and as close to a FR bike as I can build it for ski resort days, heavy wheels and maybe a different fork with more travel like a Boxxer DC fork or a 06 170mm 66RC and a M6 front brake and hopefully a Rocco rear shock! I would like to try the Cane Creek Double Barrel shock but I dont know if BTI will be carring them. That shock is basicly made by Oliens (spelling help) and they make some of the finest offroad motorcycle racing shocks in the world.
I'm with you Stix, the VPX is an excellent pedaller. It pedals better than any of my other bikes did while still being supple when needed. That to me is the best combi. I think the Cane Creek Double Barrel has a lot to do with it as well as the VPP. You can order CC Double Barrel directly from Cane Creek. Call up Malcolm and tell him I referred you. He'll take great care of ya! You will not be sorry you paid the $$$ for this shock. Like you said Ohlins makes some serious suspension. Ducati being one of the companies. I found out today that the Double Barrel shock that is on my MTN Bike, actually goes on the Formula One cars that race underneath the major F1 cars. That is amazing. The TTX 40 goes on the Off Road trucks that race in the Baja 1000. That is saying alot to me. And I can tell it when I'm riding. That is the ultimate true test. All the talk in the world can go on in these forums, but until you get something underneath you and ride it and feel it foryourself, it's all speculation and going off here-say. So, take it from me and my opinion. For what it's worth. The CC Double Barrel is worth every copper penny spent. Let me know if you take the plunge.
 

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aappling72 said:
I'm with you Stix, the VPX is an excellent pedaller. It pedals better than any of my other bikes did while still being supple when needed. That to me is the best combi. I think the Cane Creek Double Barrel has a lot to do with it as well as the VPP. You can order CC Double Barrel directly from Cane Creek. Call up Malcolm and tell him I referred you. He'll take great care of ya! You will not be sorry you paid the $$$ for this shock. Like you said Ohlins makes some serious suspension. Ducati being one of the companies. I found out today that the Double Barrel shock that is on my MTN Bike, actually goes on the Formula One cars that race underneath the major F1 cars. That is amazing. The TTX 40 goes on the Off Road trucks that race in the Baja 1000. That is saying alot to me. And I can tell it when I'm riding. That is the ultimate true test. All the talk in the world can go on in these forums, but until you get something underneath you and ride it and feel it foryourself, it's all speculation and going off here-say. So, take it from me and my opinion. For what it's worth. The CC Double Barrel is worth every copper penny spent. Let me know if you take the plunge.
Mr. Bling,

Do you know if they make a 7.5x2.25 size? What's the contact number for Malcolm?
 

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SSINGA said:
Mr. Bling,

Do you know if they make a 7.5x2.25 size? What's the contact number for Malcolm?
They can make any size you need from my understanding. They custom make when you order it. They don't just have them sitting around. You can reach Malcolm at 800.234.2725 ext. 346 He is a very cool guy and very knowledgeable about the product. Let me know after you talk to him.
 

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aappling72 said:
They can make any size you need from my understanding. They custom make when you order it. They don't just have them sitting around. You can reach Malcolm at 800.234.2725 ext. 346 He is a very cool guy and very knowledgeable about the product. Let me know after you talk to him.
After further investigation this morning I am going to put this on the back burner for a while. It has been hinted that PUSH "might" be woking on a Rocker for the Pack that will allow for a longer stroke shock and keep the same geometry, which is what I was looking for. I think the Pack could be better tuned if it had a lower compression ratio.
 
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