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Maybe Shiggy, Cloxxki and myself can all gang up on Gregg/Francis to bump us up.

I think the term "niche" and "29"er " shouldn't be used in the same line anymore.
 

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Recovering couch patato
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I've been pleading for a 26"-specific forum for years. They can settle there like we do here, and we'll take over DH/FR, Singlespeed we already did, etc, etc.
 

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Resistance IS futile...

If I see how much easier I can keep up with technically strong riders now...29" should be to DH what stable platform dampers have been for otherwise useless suspension designs.

Perhaps 29" can reduce all current DH bikes to silly hucksters. All it takes really is just one decent DH tire. We're all riding 29" XC tires now which in 26" are "decent", no more no less. I for one feel technically invincible on my €25 MSRP (incl 19% VAT) Bonty XR tires. This has got to be only the tip of the iceberg.
 

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Don't be a sheep
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Cloxxki said:
Resistance IS futile...

If I see how much easier I can keep up with technically strong riders now...29" should be to DH what stable platform dampers have been for otherwise useless suspension designs.

Perhaps 29" can reduce all current DH bikes to silly hucksters. All it takes really is just one decent DH tire. We're all riding 29" XC tires now which in 26" are "decent", no more no less. I for one feel technically invincible on my €25 MSRP (incl 19% VAT) Bonty XR tires. This has got to be only the tip of the iceberg.
Never gonna happen. Real DH/Freeride brings a whole other set of equpment requirements that many on this forum don't realize.
 

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I don't see them. All I see is a lot of suspension action sucking up speed that could partially have been rolled over loss-free with large wheels. 26" wheels just get stuck between the rocks and roots is what I'm seeing. Bigger whels get more grip out of the same tread pattern, so you could go for lower treads and even faster rolling or just heaps more grip. Acceleration? Been covered.
Yes it will be harder to fit sufficient suspension travel to be competitive. But if the number one and 2 in a WorldCup can be significantly different bikes, surely a well-working shorish travel bike can be crafted with 700c rims? The 5" Lenz Behemoth is already extremely capable (if we have to believe reviews and pics), something 7" can certainly be made, if they just come up with the $10k tire mold already. The price of 2 bikes keeping up a whole category of DH bikes to happen, *sigh*...
 

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Agreed, in that situation the 29"er would be harder to handle. It will never be better in all aspects, but as long as the wheels touch the ground, 29" is hard to beat. Larger wheels will also change the way you perform certain maneouvres. I rarely see myself hanging behind my seat anymore, because there's less of a need to.
29" hucks have been done though, larger ones tan that, and with 125mm of rear travel.
 

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Look at the time!
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There will be 29er DH bikes - no doubt. I'm just saying that you would need a bit more than just a tire to turn a 5" 29er trailbike into a DH racer.
Things like DH frame, fork, and probably some strong rims. Big wheels alone will not prevent a frame from breaking if you throw it over jumps like these at racing speed, 10 times a day.

I guess a 69er DH bike could work pretty good. Like an adult version of the BigHit.
 

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HIKE!
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Reality check....

.... Rivet is on the money. I think that Cloxxi may be in need of a road trip to Whistler, Tamarack, Fruita, Moab etc to see what the new generation of 6"+ travel 26" wheeled bikes make possible!

".... lot of suspension action sucking up speed...." You have to experience some of that terrain. That suspension action is all about speed. Yeesh. Just look at that video (I think Padre on his Lenz?) over some rugged terrain from a month or so back....

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=143952

and you can see what suspension does. 622mm bsd rims or 559mm bsd rims, an active long travel suspension has its place in mountain biking! Maybe not in cross races along city parks, gravel paths and dikes in Holland, so I wouldn't assert that my 6" travel Turner SixPack is the bike for that.

Yes, big hucks have been done on a 29er. Big hucks have been done on 20" wheels (been to the local DJ park lately? Oh, thought not) as well. There are lots of types of bikes for lots of types of riding, and in both wheel size formats.

Just as I've ponied up for a 29er single speed for all my XC and racing needs for 2006, lots of folks 'round here could stand a day of shuttlling Porcupine Rim with a big hit bike and some full body armor. Now, let's start a fund to send Cloxxi to a Freeride camp at Whistler......
 

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Don't be a sheep
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Cloxxki said:
I don't see them. All I see is a lot of suspension action sucking up speed that could partially have been rolled over loss-free with large wheels. 26" wheels just get stuck between the rocks and roots is what I'm seeing. Bigger whels get more grip out of the same tread pattern, so you could go for lower treads and even faster rolling or just heaps more grip. Acceleration? Been covered.
Yes it will be harder to fit sufficient suspension travel to be competitive. But if the number one and 2 in a WorldCup can be significantly different bikes, surely a well-working shorish travel bike can be crafted with 700c rims? The 5" Lenz Behemoth is already extremely capable (if we have to believe reviews and pics), something 7" can certainly be made, if they just come up with the $10k tire mold already. The price of 2 bikes keeping up a whole category of DH bikes to happen, *sigh*...
If all were talking about is a larger overall tire diameter it'd be easy enough to add some sidewall height and thickness and maybe a litttle more knob height and thickness and you're average 2.5/2.7 DH tire, which is very tall to begin with, is the same height as the typical 29'er tire. Seems a little easier than redesigning the whole system, but then it wouldn't warrant a cult following nor a special forum.
 

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I am not trying to claim that 5" of travel will win all DH races. Also not that 29.00" is the holy number. 2.5" extra inches IS a factor to reckon with, or we can just shut down this forum before the new year and save some data traffic costs.
Sure travel is good, but it doesn't mean that you can just pick a small wheel and expect it to be the optimum. Yes 26x2.7" is about the size of a cyclo-cross wheel. Does that make it the optimum in extreme offroadability? My personal little theory is that the optimal wheelsize is the largest you can reasonably put the rider on without hampering freedom of movement such that it loses efficiency. For 29" XC, the limit lies around 5'0", not facturing in current suspension for offerings.
I'm pretty sure the average DH racer is over 6 foot, and will be able to fit a 7" travel 700c DH bike.

Unless you're pushing your bike through and over doubles/triples all the time like a BMX, but have to cope with "natural" conditions more, larger wheels are just plain better. All too many mistake something that just happened that way from the beginning of time for the best way to ever do it.

You can't tell me that just because DH is so specific and different normal fysics don't apply anymore. It's still 2 wheels that are in a hurry to cross an offroad course.
I've meticulously examined this year's Willingen WC course, and my DH friends regarded it as pretty much out there. Not a wussy thing for sure. Almost each part of that courses, probably excluding the pure free cross bmx-style stuff at the beginning, I'd personally do faster with larger wheels. It's basically a messy XC course with larger drops, everything larger really, doing down a steeper hill. Sure I lack the skills to survive that course, but I can imagine well how it must be to ride it, and how variables as vital as wheelsize would affect it.
They tried 24", and it didn't work out for DH, while I hear more and more flying is involved lately. If smaller don't work, surely larger is useless too?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Cloxxki said:
I've seen it over 300 a lot of times a couple months ago. We're not alone anymore...
Mind you, alot of the recent traffic may have been due to Aquaholic's JJ thread. 36000+ views. Many will just be bike porn surfers, although hopefully some will be converted.
 
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