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So upset about doing manual trick on street

4K views 62 replies 22 participants last post by  v1rtu0s1ty 
#1 · (Edited)
I built a manual trainer and I was able to balance myself the same day after an hour of trying it. I can balance myself for a minute.

On the same day I built the manual trainer, I also practiced manual on the street. I didn't get it. I've been practicing it daily and today is my 8th day practicing it on the street with no luck. I watched every youtube tutorial and followed them. It looks like I can only lift the front maybe 1 foot high from ground then goes down real quick after a second. My butt I guess is 8 inches to 1 foot from the rear tire. I make sure I preload the front wheel but I am not sure why I am unable to do manual on the street. Sigh 😥I'd be happy if it least I can stay 2-3 seconds, LOL. Any ideas what I could be doing wrong?
 
#3 ·
Did you take the chain off your bike when using the trainer? If not, you need to. That said, I built a manual trainer and found it did basically nothing for learning to actually manual. Get as subscription to Ryan Leech's training app and practice, practice, practice.
 
#5 ·
I totally agree. The balance is easy but to get to the balance point is the hardest part. Maybe in few more weeks, my muscles will get used to it. I'm honesty preloading then with the help of the waist, I use it to bring some force back which helps. I guess, I should aim for something that will force me all the way back and off my bike, then my feet on the ground. I'm also thinking the bike is big for me though I can balance it using my manual trainer.
 
#10 ·
Watch some more videos, reading some more tips help but the most important thing is to keep practicing even though it doesn't seem to be working. Body will do many things wrong first before it figures out what's right. It will take weeks, if not months before you get there. Nobody learns to manual over night.
A youtuber said it took him 2 months to get it. I'll keep doing it even if it takes me a year. I want to learn it :)
 
#11 ·
The manual trainer is locking your rear wheel in place and removing any of the psychological aspects of manualing like looping out or washing out the front if you veer too much to one side in the air.

The manual is a complex movement that requires you to get the wheel off the ground, have your body in a balanced position to be able to maintain the raised wheel and also avoid too much lateral movement. The manual trainer eliminates a lot of the difficulty which is why a lot of people think they are worthless.

I can't manual very well at all but when you get the initial movement correct its entirely effortless. Your weight shift is doing the work. The hard part for me is keeping the wheel up and avoiding going left or right in the air. As others have said, just practice. Ditch the manual machine and just practice them.
 
#22 ·
The manual trainer is locking your rear wheel in place and removing any of the psychological aspects of manualing like looping out or washing out the front if you veer too much to one side in the air.

The manual is a complex movement that requires you to get the wheel off the ground, have your body in a balanced position to be able to maintain the raised wheel and also avoid too much lateral movement. The manual trainer eliminates a lot of the difficulty which is why a lot of people think they are worthless.

I can't manual very well at all but when you get the initial movement correct its entirely effortless. Your weight shift is doing the work. The hard part for me is keeping the wheel up and avoiding going left or right in the air. As others have said, just practice. Ditch the manual machine and just practice them.
I totally agree! The manual trainer and training manual on street are quite different. I'll practice outside again later. Thank you.
 
#13 ·
If it makes you feel any better, I spent the first part of COVID practicing manuals, wheelies and track stands for at least 20 minutes/day, usually significantly more, over a couple of months. I'm still no expert now. It takes a ton of practice.
  • My track stands on the driveway are awesome. Carry-over to the trail is so-so. Has definitely helped technical riding, but I can't track stand forever on the trail
  • Wheelies are good enough. Can get 4-5 pedal strokes. I'm not going to wow anyone. That said, it's functional enough that I can now wheelie drop anything I dare
  • Manuals. Those are f'ing tough. Not even close to being able to ride a manual down the street. I can certainly use the motion to pull up the front wheel. Log hopping has improved exponentially (not really, but the word sounds good). I can use the manual-slight pause-hop method to clear some pretty big logs efficiently.
So...if you just looked at my results, not so great when it comes to tricks. But, they've all had a positive impact on my riding. Keep it up!

P.S. Ryan Leech videos are awesome. Give him some money, he deserves it. The step-by-step breakdown is really helpful. Much better than the random bro on the Internet.
 
#24 ·
If it makes you feel any better, I spent the first part of COVID practicing manuals, wheelies and track stands for at least 20 minutes/day, usually significantly more, over a couple of months. I'm still no expert now. It takes a ton of practice.
  • My track stands on the driveway are awesome. Carry-over to the trail is so-so. Has definitely helped technical riding, but I can't track stand forever on the trail
  • Wheelies are good enough. Can get 4-5 pedal strokes. I'm not going to wow anyone. That said, it's functional enough that I can now wheelie drop anything I dare
  • Manuals. Those are f'ing tough. Not even close to being able to ride a manual down the street. I can certainly use the motion to pull up the front wheel. Log hopping has improved exponentially (not really, but the word sounds good). I can use the manual-slight pause-hop method to clear some pretty big logs efficiently.
So...if you just looked at my results, not so great when it comes to tricks. But, they've all had a positive impact on my riding. Keep it up!

P.S. Ryan Leech videos are awesome. Give him some money, he deserves it. The step-by-step breakdown is really helpful. Much better than the random bro on the Internet.
Will do. I'll keep practicing daily for 20-30 mins!
 
#36 ·
This is a good time to use platform pedals, so you can simply step off instead of bustin' your ass! Manuals are euphoric and should be a tool for trail riding in everyone's quiver.

Totally agree. That's why I've only been practicing on street
Tha steet!! I spend part of my lunch hour with a bike. I spend part of my evening with a bike and a German Shepherd.
Frankly, 30 minutes to an hour, several days a week is a great way to get some practice going on. Try to work on a couple of things for the focus to get the progress happening.
 
#14 ·
I always feel like most people go too slow when trying to learn. Momentum and giro effect can help with balance. Usually when I need to use it on the trail, I'm typically going pretty fast. Through a dip, or roots, rocks, etc.

Most videos say to lower and go back, which lifts the wheel. I feel like I'm pushing my bike away/forwards with my arms, at the same time as I'm lowering my hips and going back. All in one smooth motion, without a lot of effort. Just how it feels when I do it. my 2¢
 
#15 ·
for me, what really clicked was when an instructor told me to do all the work with my LOWER body and that my arms are just holding on. so I drop my hips, and then push forward with my legs. The magic happens when my hips end up moving past the rear axle. You're definitely right that you need some momentum to hold/balance it, but I think that getting the motions dialed just to reach that balance point require that you slow it down. I think that's the idea behind the manual machines, that you slow it down so much that you're not moving at all. But you can't learn the whole thing on a manual machine because you do HAVE to get moving and allow for all of the complex interactions between rotating wheels, side-to-side balance, feathering the rear brake, and all of that. so the manual machine is really only just a start.
 
#29 ·
Its in the lower body really, the legs and hips like others said. You make a backwards L motion, down then back with your legs and hips. The arms just connect you to the bars, and ideally will stay extended, like when doing a wheelie. Pulling up only doesn't work. If you learn them with bad technique(relying on pulling up too much) you risk straining your lower back getting into position, it shouldn't hurt your back if you're doing it right. Looping out is when you go back too far and come off the bike. Thats why you cover the rear brake at all times.

A good way to learn how far you have to move down and back is doing it as slow as you can, and intentionally loop out. You can catch yourself easy at that speed, but you'll see what it takes. Once you get the wheel up then its a matter of balance and rear brake. You'll know when you're reaching the ideal balance point because your speed will maintain or even increase. If you balance with the front low, your body will be farther back over the wheel, and vise versa. Just takes seat time.
 
#30 ·
Its in the lower body really, the legs and hips like others said. You make a backwards L motion, down then back with your legs and hips. The arms just connect you to the bars, and ideally will stay extended, like when doing a wheelie. Pulling up only doesn't work. If you learn them with bad technique(relying on pulling up too much) you risk straining your lower back getting into position, it shouldn't hurt your back if you're doing it right. Looping out is when you go back too far and come off the bike. Thats why you cover the rear brake at all times.

A good way to learn how far you have to move down and back is doing it as slow as you can, and intentionally loop out. You can catch yourself easy at that speed, but you'll see what it takes. Once you get the wheel up then its a matter of balance and rear brake. You'll know when you're reaching the ideal balance point because your speed will maintain or even increase. If you balance with the front low, your body will be farther back over the wheel, and vise versa. Just takes seat time.
That's what I did with my almost 1.5 hours of practicing today. Maybe I made some improvement because I felt some longer air time, like it felt like front wheel stayed longer.

Is looping out done intentionally or do we wait for it to happen?
 
#42 ·
That bike is big for you to learn to manual. Your center of mass is forward of the rear axle, which is the opposite of what you need. You might try getting a cheap DJ or BMX bike to learn the basics, then translate that to your MTB.
 
#43 ·
Got it. That's why I was having so much tough time trying to lift it. That's also why I was having a hard time trying to do bunny hop.

I'll try again tomorrow. I adjusted the front suspension settings. I noticed I could barely push it towards earth so the rebound was not strong. I also made the rebound faster.
 
#46 ·
The thing with manuals is that they're not done statically. so a static pic of yourself stretched WAY back doesn't really help. it shows us what your possible range of motion is, but it really doesn't show us the important part of manualing, which is how you're USING that range of motion.

I mean, sure, a smaller bike like a BMX or DJ bike is going to allow you to be less precise with your motions and still get a successful manual. But the converse of that is by learning it on a longer mtb that fits better for general trail riding is that you'll really dial in your technique.

Getting a reliable manual on a long mtb is about the movements themselves. Think explosiveness. If you're explosive with dropping your hips and then pushing your feet forward on the pedals, the front end of the bike WILL rise. When I first started working on the technique, I very suddenly nailed it and looped out HARD. on a heavy AF full suspension fatbike. It hurt and I got gunshy, which set me back. what I had to do was step back and build my confidence again. I had to work on mini manuals, then tapping the rear brake to bring my front wheel down. Then working on modulating the front brake to bring the front down more softly. And then work on purposely looping out and stepping off the pedals. build the toolbox of skills for addressing what happens when I reach or pass the balance point.

I've even found with wheelies that if I drop the saddle just a touch and use a little bit of the same motion to manual that it helps me more reliably reach the balance point on a wheelie, too.
 
#48 ·
Oh, I never kick the pedals. I only push the handlebars towards earth. But today, I tried pushing my bike towards earth using my feet as if there was a heavy duty coil under my feet along with pushing the handlebars too. I think that's when I noticed I was able to add an extra second of air time. I also think my timing is bad when rebound starts happening.

I should take a video of myself so you folks can pinpoint the issues I am making. We'll see if I can do it today since I already did it this morning and my right elbow is painful now.
 
#53 ·
Great post - I dig your tenacity, Virtuosity!

Riding/holding a manual is one of my goals, too. I considered building a manual machine during covid and now glad I didn’t :)

For the rest of you MTB manualers, how many are riding clipped in? Any greater risk of looping a manual than looping a wheelie?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#56 ·
Great post - I dig your tenacity, Virtuosity!

Riding/holding a manual is one of my goals, too. I considered building a manual machine during covid and now glad I didn't :)

For the rest of you MTB manualers, how many are riding clipped in? Any greater risk of looping a manual than looping a wheelie?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Manual trick is very hard! I honestly thought the manual trainer will help. But quite honestly, it didn't. I was able to lift my bike and stay in air for more than a minute the day I completed building it. When I got outside to try manual, OMG, I couldn't even lift it. I think it's my 11 or 12th day today. I am still unable to manual but pretty sure I'm seeing micro progress. Oh, I've been training manual everyday because I want it to so bad, LOL! ?
 
#60 ·
Well, Americans did not invent the bicycle, those Euros have been doing silly things on bikes since, well, bicycles were invented.
Someone mentioned looping out, yes definitely practice purposely looping and bailing off the back. And yes, its easier to loop out trying manuals. The balance is finer and more critical with a manual, I still can't really do one even though I could wheelie all over. Manual you can't really use pedaling to bring the front back up, and so using the brake to bring it down usually ends the manual, so i don't try to use either when attempting manual.
 
#62 ·
Thank you BansheeRune and Taroroot about bike and its origin.

I have an update about my manual practice. I didn't do anything for the past 2 days because of the pain on my right elbow. Today however, the pain is manageable. So I went out and practiced it. I finally got the technique! WOOHOO! 🕺I'm still not consistent but I can tell now why my execution was wrong. And yes, my elbows weren't exerting a lot of effort today which is really nice! The micro blipping of handlebars to the ground, the kicking of pedals at the same time I was pushing the handlebars, making my arms straight once the front of the bike(rebound) is going back to me, and making my legs straight too after rebound, and getting my butt really closer to the back as well as making it lower or closer to tire made the pulling really easy! I think my longest air time was 2.5 seconds! WOOHOO! 🥰

I'll practice again tomorrow!
 
#9 ·
I have new updates. I changed the way I was pulling the bike using my manual trainer. I lowered my butt and more closer to the rear tire and more behind the seat when pulling it. OMG, It was easier to pull the bike(like it was light) but now I'm always over, LOL! I'll try the same technique tomorrow.
 
#16 ·
It can take a really long time to build up muscle memory to learn anything new. You should watch wheelie progression videos too. People will try for what seems like forever until they can get a good wheelie. I've watched some skateboard progression videos too and skaters spent months just trying to get a solid ollie and kick flip done.

I also 2nd Ryan Leech too. I tried his manual classes and within an hour, I was able to get my wheel off the ground pretty high. I only went a few feet but that's a few feet I didn't get while learning on my own.
 
#20 ·
Some people say push the bike forward, others say shift your weight back, it's the same. Just a different way of visualizing it. Someone above basically said this and I agree, the hard part in learning to manual on the street (or trail) is getting to the balance point. When you're rolling, the weight shift has inertia so it's tough to learn how to give it just enough energy without overdoing it and looping out, since the balance point is just in front of that point. We seem to instinctively fear looping out too, so it's very common to see people not give the initial lift enough energy. Practicing looping out and stepping off the back will make a big difference.
 
#41 ·
I've been trying to analyze why I'm having extreme tough time getting the front of the bike to lift. So I watched few youtubes and what I've noticed is that it looks like their bikes are smaller or right sized.

This is me in the garage and as you can see, my arms are so stretched out just to be able to get close to the back and my body is almost parallel to the ground. I matched the angle from the other pic so you folks can compare. You will also noticed my knee is just the same height at my lowest setting of seat post. But if you look at the other pic, his seat is raised but his knee is close to the seat because he is tall. I'm sure I'll be abel to get manual but it will take many months. I really think the medium sized vitus sentier was big for my height. I was at the edge of small frame and beginning of medium frame based from their guidelines. I found out about that after already making the purchased. I picked medium because local Trek store told me I was medium. That was a wrong decision I made. Anyways, I'm still enjoying my new bike.

What are your thoughts?

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