[uzurpator]

My wife's bike is set up with an 11-52 chinese 11-speed wonder, courtesy of ZTTO excellent warranty policy It was being shifted with an 11 speed SLX shifter and RD-M6000-GS Deore rear derailleur. It kind of worked, but was far from 'click->shift' kind of performance. I mean - I can get around a little lazy shifting from time to time, but for the life of me - my wife just expects digital performance. One of those days I'll get her an electronic shifting and set it to 'auto'.

Anyhow. The issue is that Deore derailleur was not meant for 41T spread of the cassette. So with the introduction of the shimano 12 speed I toyed with the idea of getting an SLX 7100 rear mech and try to run it on 11 speed drivetrain.

Read: it took me approximately 20 seconds to order one, when it became available. It arrived in a few days, and this happend:

TL: DW:

- 12 speed shimano uses the same dyna-sys pull ratio as their 11 and 10 speed lines. Mix/match as much as you desire.
- the mech is pretty agnostic when it comes to the cassette - it will work with just about anything you throw at it as long as you ride 1xX. I tried with 11-23, 11-40 and 11-52. With this derailleur you can utilize those 10 speed massive range chinese cassettes with no issues.

Now this got me thinking. Since mix/match is now a thing. You can get reliable shifting with shimano 12 speed offerings with:

12 speed cassette -> match to 12 speed shimano mtb shifter
11 speed cassette -> match to 11 speed shimano mtb shifter
10 speed cassette -> match to 10 or 11 speed shimano mtb shifter

Since DynaSys is kind of compatible with old sram ESP, then

9 speed cassette -> match to 9 speed SRAM ESP shifter
8 speed cassette -> match to 8 speed SRAM ESP shifter

Now. It appears that sram 12 speed shifters are compatible with shimano, so the following should also work. But I have no gear to check it:

12 speed cassette -> match to 12 speed SRAM 1x shifter

 

[noapathy]

Wow, thanks for that. Very good info.

 

[One Pivot]

The 9/10/11 chains fit appropriately in the derailleur cage? No rubbing or weirdness?

Thats cool it has the same pull ratio. I'm not impressed with shimanos 12s cassettes, but if I can scavenge parts off the 12s group otherwise, thats awesome!

 

[06HokieMTB]

Reviving an old thread here...

Shimano's XTR SL-M9100 right (rear) shifter is advertised as compatible with 12-speed or 11-speed with a switch.

So I could buy an XTR M9100 shifter (and either M8100 XT or M7100 SLX) rear derailleur and run my exisiting 11s cassettes and chains!

This would enable me to jump to 12s once my current cassette wears out (but avoid the immediate expense of jumping to 12s cassettes when I have perfectly good 11s stuff lying around)

Very cool :thumbsup:

 

[meschenbruch]

I don't actually have the shifter so take with a grain of salt, but the 11 speed option of the 12 speed shifter is NOT the same as an 11 speed specific shifter. It's simply stopping the final click, not going to adjust the pull ratio. The '11 speed' cassette won't be as wide as an 11 speed specific cassette.

Looks like you can upgrade the derailleur though. Shifter and cassette/chain are going to have to be done at the same time.

 

[rideit]

. I'm not impressed with shimanos 12s cassettes

Really curious as to why, I am blown away by how much better the Shimano 12 stuff works as compared to sram XO1, which I now feel shifts like crap.
Have you tried the whole system, chain, cassette, shifter, etc?

 

[podpolanec]

On my son's 26" bike i try similar combination and it works very nice :

12 speed SLX RD-M7100 derailleur +
11 speed ZTTO 11-52 SLR2 ultralight cassette +
11 speed XT SL-M8000 shifter +
11 speed XTR HG901 chain, 112 links

But best shifting i achieved with 11-speed Shimano XTR HG901 chain,
because it's more lateral stiff than KMC X10 and X11,
as you can see on 3th picture.

So thanks to Sheldon Brown's article for inspiration.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/chain_stiffness.htm

 

[Verbl Kint]

I currently run my 9100 XTR shifter+RD with an 11-speed e-thirteen cassette (9-46). Shifts alright but it didn't when I was still using an 11-speed chain.

I strongly advise everyone to use 12-speed chains. These will shift more smoothly as these are narrower.

Note that this 11- and 12-speed mixing and matching will work (and shift fine) but it won't shift under load like on a proper Shimano 10-51 cassette.

 

[Outhouse]

under load is where my ztto 11s cassette failed in a bad way, I was using the m7100 and teo new m8000 with goatlink and could not make it work on trails.

Good thing is I was able to switch to the eagle 12s gx cassette with the m7100 and it shifts like butter and I like the shimano shifter better then the one way thumb press sram

 

[pressed001]

- 12 speed shimano uses the same dyna-sys pull ratio as their 11 and 10 speed lines. Mix/match as much as you desire.

On my son's 26" bike i try similar combination and it works very nice :

12 speed SLX RD-M7100 derailleur +
11 speed ZTTO 11-52 SLR2 ultralight cassette +
11 speed XT SL-M8000 shifter +
11 speed XTR HG901 chain, 112 links

After spending all morning looking for solutions, these posts get me all sorts of giddy.

I plan on running an XTR RD-9000-SGS with a GRX 31/48 crankset and an XTR 9100 10-45 cassette.

I know this pushes the limits of the RD. It has an 18 front difference so I am covered there but it also has a 42t max low gear and also a 11t min high gear. But, we all know Shimano is conservative so I am hoping that I can get it to work. Worth a shot when you look at the range compared to my M985 2x10 speed group (both are 26 inch bikes):

link to Ritzelrechner

Since I want a bike that can do it all, this might just be a great solution.

This group would be for this build.

 

[pressed001]

I realize now that I was calculating the capacity incorrectly. Capacity for the RD with a 2x system is 42t and the capacity of the system which I described above is 51t. That aint anywhere near possible.

 

[Outhouse]

the capacity

Yep, I run a 50T eagle cassette using the M7100 and it works better then the sram eagle derailleur, love the shimano shifter as well since its multi directional shift lever

 

[ungod]

I think this is probably the third time I've really appreciated your info, thanks uzurpator. I ordered a 7100 for my 10-50t 11 speed.

 

[ungod]

I strongly advise everyone to use 12-speed chains. These will shift more smoothly as these are narrower.

I think the Shimano chain requires a special tooth profile, or at least when shopping for front sprockets you would be led to believe that. They make special front sprockets for the Shimano 12-speed chains.

 

[satanas]

Great video and very useful info - thanks uzurpator! ;-)

 

[neb]

12 speed Shimano and 11/12 speed SRAM are also kinda compatible. Pull ratio of 1.12 Vs 1.1. so you can mix an match pretty much all drivetrain components, which is nice. Add in box, Microsoft, sunrace all use Shimano pull ratios they can be mixed and matched too!

 

[ungod]

Are we sure that the 12 speed Shimano derailleur is compatible with the 11-speed Shimano shifters? I'm having issues with my setup that seems like a slight mismatch in pull ratios or something.

Having issues shifting up from the three smallest cogs and down from the three largest cogs. I've spent plenty of time with the b-tension screw. Everything is new except for my 11-speed XTR shifter, including the bike (although the hanger could have been damaged in shipping). Using a Garbaruk 10-50 cassette that was working fine on another bike. Also tried with a 12-speed YBN chain.

Shifting has been so bad that I've just ordered a 12-speed cassette and shifter, not worth dinking around with this stuff.

 

[satanas]

I'd be checking the hanger is straight before doing anything else. If it isn't it's likely nothing will work, no matter how new or expensive it might be. I *always* check and align the hanger on new bikes; alu replaceable hangers get bent easily. Saves a lot of trouble.

 

[huckleberry hound]

Are we sure that the 12 speed Shimano derailleur is compatible with the 11-speed Shimano shifters? I'm having issues with my setup that seems like a slight mismatch in pull ratios or something.

Having issues shifting up from the three smallest cogs and down from the three largest cogs. I've spent plenty of time with the b-tension screw. Everything is new except for my 11-speed XTR shifter, including the bike (although the hanger could have been damaged in shipping). Using a Garbaruk 10-50 cassette that was working fine on another bike. Also tried with a 12-speed YBN chain.

Shifting has been so bad that I've just ordered a 12-speed cassette and shifter, not worth dinking around with this stuff.

It works flawlessly with my SLX 7100 derailleur and 11 speed XT shifter. It sounds like your hanger is bent.

 

[ungod]

Time to borrow a DAG from a buddy I guess.