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Discussion Starter #1
so doing any kind of riding in loose deep snow is almost impossible even on a fatbike and if there's any kind of climbing involved forget about it...the rear wheel just spins out

Curious if anyone has thought of making a snow/sand specific paddle tire for a mountain bike.

something like this...
fattire.jpg

I think there is a lot of room for improvement for snow tires especially on fatbikes...most of the tread designs work great for dirt or hardpack snow but for the deep stuff nothing really works good as a rear tire to push you forward.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
cross posting from the wheels and tires thread:

would be for deeper snow and loose sand, more of a fatbike specific rear tire. Really the only reason I see to own a fatbike is to ride in those conditions ... otherwise if its a firm snowpacked trail you can ride an xc trailbike just as easily as a fatbike

was pretty disappointed in the fatbike's capabilities to ride in deeper looser snow, especially trying to climb the rear tire would just spin out, a true paddle tire would probably increase a fatbikes capabilities quite a bit. Would be easy for manufactures to redesign the rear triangle cross supports to accomodate really tall lugs/paddles...wouldnt have to make the tires any wider

I know for a fact after riding a fatbike in the snow all last season that this tire would own it!!

Problem is most fatbike manufactures are designg fatbike tires that have dirt tread patterns. And the whole rationale behind fatbikes is that you are supposed to ride them in snow and sand which is nothing at all like riding in dirt.
 

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I think using a tire like that would necessitate a second wheel, at least for the vast majority of riders, so you could swap to it when riding deep powder. That tire would suck in hardpack snow, light snow, and even wet or frozen sand. Ice? It would be a deep powder/dry sand only tire. It wouldn't work for anyone who rides roads to get to a trail.

Maybe an ~inch long paddle, more closely spaced could work and fit in some current frames? There is a small market for such a tire, but there are occasional rides where such a tire would work wonders.

That viewpoint for fatbike usage is very limited, and not representative of where/how most of fatbikes get used. You have to sell the tire to real customers, in quantity, to make it worth producing.
 

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Simon Rakower (Snowcat Guru, Fatbiking Godfather) had some input with Nokian on this tire back in the 90's Nokian Boazobeana R Tire Reviews - Mtbr.com. It was designed as a rear-specific tire with optimal performance on a Snowcat. It has a paddle-esque design and had a Front-specific mate...kinda like a "Dart" on steroids. I have a prototype Boazobeana that Simon gave me on loan to a buddy's collection. It has great drive traction but gets really squirly on anything moderately off-camber...I 'spect a paddle tire would be similar...
 

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Many moons ago - back when you had to post your fatbike on the 29er board - someone posted a Pug they had modded with paddles. They had sliced garden hose down the middle then cut it into 3.5" lengths and attached those pieces to his endomorphs. He never reported his findings as far as I can find.
 

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Not much you can do when snow is that deep. Either wait for others to forge a path or air down as much as possible and suffer like the rest of us.

Tires like that would be great in a straight line but horrible in any off camber terrain.
 

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I think you could incorporate some big cross-wise lugs or chevrons into a rear specific tire that would make it bite better on climbs in loose snow, while keeping the side and transition knobs that help in off camber and cornering. There's plenty of tire surface there to support both, eh?
 

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Simon Rakower (Snowcat Guru, Fatbiking Godfather) had some input with Nokian on this tire back in the 90's Nokian Boazobeana R Tire Reviews - Mtbr.com. It was designed as a rear-specific tire with optimal performance on a Snowcat. It has a paddle-esque design and had a Front-specific mate...kinda like a "Dart" on steroids. I have a prototype Boazobeana that Simon gave me on loan to a buddy's collection. It has great drive traction but gets really squirly on anything moderately off-camber...I 'spect a paddle tire would be similar...
Cool display! Reminds me of my old Wildfire that I sold a few years ago.
 

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You're misunderstanding the nature of snow and the human interaction with it.

Put another way, no human has the horsepower to turn over a paddle tire that'd do what you want it to.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
couple more sources of inspiration...

stock-photo-tire-on-motorcycle-paddle-tire-used-on-dirtbike-for-hillclimb-1641578.jpg
PedalBoat_zps4f0fddc1.jpg

you ever been in a paddle boat before? kind of the same concept

If theres enough power for me to spin out the rear tire in snow theres enough power for me to spin a paddle tire

I think thats the whole point of being on a fatbike is being able to blaze new trails or riding through crud that you normally wouldnt be able to ride on an xc bike. If you are riding on hardpack trails and ice why not ride an xc bike they work much better especially if you have studded tires.

Ive had a lot of fun on my fatbike dont get me wrong but theres really not much advantage over an xc bike in snowy riding conditions
 

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Discussion Starter #11
damnitman^^ thats the general idea thanks for that link... remove a few rows of the lugs and increase their height and its pretty much there
 
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You're misunderstanding the nature of snow and the human interaction with it.

Put another way, no human has the horsepower to turn over a paddle tire that'd do what you want it to.
^this x 10 and if the snow is that deep you can't turn the crank anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
couple shots of an experiment that I made last night of a paddle tire, took about an hour...when riding in non packed snow you dont feel the lugs at all very smooth

the lugs are kind of flimsy will probably try to make a something a bit more sturdy.

another idea was for a snow chain thing that you could strap to your rear tire for when the going gets tough...the center portion of the snow chain could have raised paddles for the deeper stuff

IMG_6677.jpg
IMG_6678.jpg

hopefully i wont get a flat:)
 

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You're misunderstanding the nature of snow and the human interaction with it.

Put another way, no human has the horsepower to turn over a paddle tire that'd do what you want it to.
Ditto. When the snow gets to deep/soft to ride... time to switch to ski's or snow shoe's. In fact I often carry a small set of snow shoes on my rack so I can continue traveling past the ridable stuff. If we get a big snow, often I'll go out on snow shoes first to pack a favorite route. And, though as cyclists we might like to thumb our nose's at the motorized crowd, for fat bikers in winter (in my area anyway), snowmobiler's are your friend- and trail groomer. They're routes make it possible to ride deep into the back country around here.

Keep dreaming and tryin' stuff though... that's how we got here. But IMO, even if paddles worked, the'd suck the energy out of your body so quick they wouldn't get you far anyway. Some really short paddles, say 1/4" or shorter might be cool in sand, maybe w/ a chevron tread? We basically had that with Endo's. Like to see a new generation 5" Endo-ish tire.
 

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Ive had a lot of fun on my fatbike dont get me wrong but theres really not much advantage over an xc bike in snowy riding conditions
Totally off base. Just did a ride outside of Nederland, CO at 10,000'. Snow was soft and hardly compacted. The guys with the high floatations Buds and Lou's ran circles around us with everything from Husker DU's, On One Floaters and even Nates. An standard mtb 2.5 or under would of had nothing on that ride. It's all about contact patch and grip.
 

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Totally off base. Just did a ride outside of Nederland, CO at 10,000'. Snow was soft and hardly compacted. The guys with the high floatations Buds and Lou's ran circles around us with everything from Husker DU's, On One Floaters and even Nates. An standard mtb 2.5 or under would of had nothing on that ride. It's all about contact patch and grip.
+1.dmar123 get a grip man.
 

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You're misunderstanding the nature of snow and the human interaction with it.

Put another way, no human has the horsepower to turn over a paddle tire that'd do what you want it to.
I agree totally. The problem isn't traction, it's power.

I guess I'm not sure why people think that what we currently have doesn't offer enough traction. The Lou isn't enough "paddle" for you? Air down and lean back?
 
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