[SlowPokePete]

I have a 2013 Kona Raijin with sliders.

I have run 34 x 21 for the first couple of hundred miles that I rode in the fall when I bought it, developed a knee problem, and just changed gearing to 34 x 22.

I have a HBC Ti 34 chainring, brand new Niner ti cog, and a chain with the couple of hundred miles on it from previous gearing set up. Drivetrain wear should not be the problem. It is a King SS rear hub in excellent condition with recent shop re-build. Chain line is good and was set-up according to recommended method on this forum.

I have ridden the bike on the streets a bit over the winter, with some climbing, and no problems.

I had no problems before changing the cog, although as I said have only put a couple hundred miles on it.

Went to the local trails last week to give it a go, and soon after beginning the climbs, I heard / felt a big noise as if the chain might have snapped. Inspected on the trail, quick link (Wipperman) looks fine, etc. Ride more, problem occurs more frequently, definitely notice the chain has lost tension.

Take it all apart at home, re-set tension, clean sliders, bolts, etc, re-install, take out in the neighborhood and crank up a few hills with no problems.

Go to the trails yesterday, and soon after beginning my climb, it starts again. Big noise, big clunk, chain seems looser...

Definitely losing chain tension, which leads me to believe the sliders are moving, although everything is tight and clean with adjusting bolts in place and supposedly doing their job.

Any suggestions?

LBS says take sliders apart and hit them with carbon prep...

SPP

 

[phsycle]

I'm assuming chainring bolts are tight, chainline is good, disc rotor/caliper bolts are snug, etc? Can you tell the sliders are moving by the wheel alignment?

 

[SlowPokePete]

All is tight. Thought about chainring bolts but it seems that if that was the case there would be exaggerated tight spots from the ring being off center?

Doesn't seem like the wheel loses alignment but I know that even a slight movement makes a big difference in chain tension.

SPP

 

[finch2]

What Phsycle said. Should be obvious if they are slipping. Never had my Ti sliders slip, but my steel ones did a little. Is this a lynskey made frame, with lynskey sliders? Usually the tensioning bolt would stop it sliding forward and losing tension. I found it was more the brake side pulling the other direction to misalign the wheel, which is not your issue. Unless you also had an eccentic BB or a crack in your frame I can't think of a good reason.

 

[bankofdad]

SPP, can you use a marker on either side of the bolts left & right side of bike to see movement ?

 

[Flyin_W]

IIRC this happened to my Unit when new. Changed the slider adjustment screws to add a locknut, and put anti-seize on the slider bolts. No longer an issue.

(tapa)

 

[Sandrenseren]

Have you tried using a torque wrench to make sure all the bolts holding the sliders are equally tight?

 

[127.0.0.1]

^torque hard and equally is critical

does that frame have a set screw which touches the axle or sliders directly ?
if so... that should stop any slop

 

[Raybum]

I've got a couple Lynskeys and in order to keep that area back there creak and movement free, you should use a small amount of anti-gal, then torque slider bolts to specs. I have the paragon upgraded bolts which allow me to torque to 18 ft-lbs. My sliders also have a small screw contact the front of them which would keep them from moving forward. I am always sure to tighten that screw against the slider.
Also, before closing the QR on the wheel, set the bike on the ground and let the axle find a natural home in the dropouts. Be sure there is no chain tension that is influencing that. Then tighten the QR damn tight. That should help.

 

[SlowPokePete]

B of D ....
The marker idea is a god one. I will try it once I tear it apart and put it back together.

FlyinW ... I have a locknut on the adjustment screws and it is tight against the slider.


Sandy ... Will definitely torque evenly to specs.

127 ... Yes, I do have the set screws.

Ray bum ...I do set the bike on the ground to ensure the wheel settles properly into the dropouts.


Great advice everyone. Will get on it ASAP and try all of the above.

Any more ideas? Really appreciative of all the suggestions ...

SPP

 

[phsycle]

Any more ideas?

Yeah, get a frame with a superior tensioning mechanism--EBB!



(I know you had issues with the Niner...)

 

[Stevob]

Other than the above suggestions providing the answer SPP, look at the axle or the freehub. I had a broken axle which was difficult to diagnose. Same big clunk, accompanied by what seemed to be a drop in chain tension.

 

[SlowPokePete]

then torque slider bolts to specs. I have the paragon upgraded bolts which allow me to torque to 18 ft-lbs.

Do you have the torque specs? Can't seem to find it online.

SPP

 

[SlowPokePete]

Tore it down and put it back together as recommended, will bring it to the trails this afternoon...thanks for the replies.

Fiddled with trying to get the wheel as straight as possible and can't believe there's no accurate way for me (or Dicky, according to some of his comments on this) to figure out if each side's position is equally fore/aft in the dropouts. Some little lines engraved in there or something would go a long way in knowing I've gotten it right...

SPP

 

[127.0.0.1]

Tore it down and put it back together as recommended, will bring it to the trails this afternoon...thanks for the replies.

Fiddled with trying to get the wheel as straight as possible and can't believe there's no accurate way for me (or Dicky, according to some of his comments on this) to figure out if each side's position is equally fore/aft in the dropouts. Some little lines engraved in there or something would go a long way in knowing I've gotten it right...

SPP

if the tire or rim clearance in the seatstays and chainstays is lined up dead center, or at least evenly... you can pretty much assume it is correct.

I cannot imaging how it can be slipping with setscrews...

however, both my SS's use track dropouts and never have a problem. I have not used a system like your frame has (appears to be inferior to my engineer mind)

I use setscrews on the roadbike and 15mm nuts,
and surly tuggnut on the 1x1 and 15mm nuts

 

[bankofdad]

My next thought is to upgrade your bolts to a higher grade. Attached is a chart for standard (non metric) bolts, I would look at grade 8.

https://www.fastenal.com/content/feds/pdf/Torque-Tension Chart for A307 Gr5 Gr8 Gr9.pdf

 

[bankofdad]

Here is the metric chart if your hardware is metric
http://www.fastenal.com/content/feds/pdf/Torque-Tension Chart for Metric Fasteners.pdf

 

[phsycle]

I cannot imaging how it can be slipping with setscrews...

I have seen where the axle slips backwards on the non-drive side (probably due to braking force from discs). Thinking back to when I had sliders, I think mine might have done the same thing once or twice.

One other thing to check is for any cracks in the frame. Ti is strong, but not indestructable. Good thing is, even if in this worst case scenario, Kona's warranty is pretty good, I believe.

 

[teamdicky]

Fiddled with trying to get the wheel as straight as possible and can't believe there's no accurate way for me (or Dicky, according to some of his comments on this) to figure out if each side's position is equally fore/aft in the dropouts.

SPP

Since my name got dropped, I'll chime in.

The Paragon hardware upgrade is worth every penny. No issues with slip whatsoever with the 12pt 10mm hardware and double washer.

Assuming the frame is built up symmetrical and wonderful and all that, I've been measuring the amount of adjustment bolt(s) sticking out from the frame.

That's all the science that it's worth. I think the hardest time I had with my first Paragons was the shallow 6mm Allen head bolts, the lack of the double washer, and the fact that if the wheel was centered in the chain stays, it wasn't centered in the seat stays (and vice versa). Drove the anal compulsive in me nuts. Not one similar issue with the last three slider frames I've owned.

 

[SlowPokePete]

Got it sorted out today and had my first good ss ride in about five months.

Thanks for the suggestions and advice.

Dicky, if the problem returns that will be the next upgrade.

Here's a couple of pics from today's ride...

Motorcycle Trail, Graham Hills...



Elsewhere in the park...



SPP