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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A buddy of mine rides all mtn with me and has a BMX and DH background.
When we come into a fast tight corner, I'm behind him and instead of him braking a lot,
he somehow gets the rear wheel to kick out or slide out, therefore putting his front wheel and bike into perfect position to handle the corner without losing much speed.

He kind of explained how to do this and what he said was that it's not so much of creating a skid by tapping the rear brake, but more of weighting the front wheel and pushing out with the hips/legs?

Can anyone please elaborate on this so I can understand and visualize it? I would like to practice and learn this move.
Next time we ride I'm going to have him give me a lesson on this too and sit at the corner and watch me. This is a great move
 

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Make some music
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Practice

Follow your buddy and visualize it. Watch his body and you'll start to get it. Probably not all at once but little by little.

Now to play devils advocate... Sure I think it looks really cool, but.... it beats the crap out of the trail surface.

So a little bit of both.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
he's not really skidding tho - it's not like a skid. he describes it likening it to the analogy of skiing, when a skier is changing directions from right to left really quickly. I'll get him to show me!
 

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notabouttoseeyourlight
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Why would you go to an internet forum to ask how to do something your riding buddy does? All the info and technique is right there in front of you every time you're on the trail. There's no way some post on the interweb is going to be more in depth than that...
 

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Pro Crastinator
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actually, what he is doing is shifting his weight over the front wheel and using the correct dynamics of making a high speed turn. weighing the front wheel is key because it allows you to turn harder and faster without washing out by adding the downward force for the super traction...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
we don't ride that much together. I figured I could get ahead start on understanding the technique, and esp. by posting on this forum and the all mtn forum as well.

I got Lee and Brian's book too, and am going to reread the sections when I get a chance.
I'm a good rider looking to step it up and my desire to go fast is a bit more advanced than my skillset right now
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
that was/is helpful as an understanding of the two main loads and components of traction or slide. thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks Brett, that's a really good article and I'll immediately start using it starting with this:

LEARNING TO COUNTER STEER:
Practice on a smooth dirt or sandy road. You are not going to actually make a turn, just practice making the movements and getting the rear of the bike to slide out. Head across the road at a slow speed on a shallow angle, then quickly turn the bike back the other direction by weighting the handlebars in the direction you are turning and pushing the rear out with your hips and feet in the other direction.

The first few times you can use a little rear brake to get the balance and set the turn up. As you get the movement down increase the speed with the goal of maintaining the rear wheel slide for a second or two. Once you feel comfortable on the flat road it will come more naturally on the trail.

Set your bike up for counter steering by lowering your seat, shortening your stem & raising your bars. Counter steering successfully requires being able to move from one end of the bike to the other. NORBA style XC bike setup is designed to weight the front of the bike for climbing and not much else.

Be aggressive. If you go into a flat turn with speed and just hope for the best, you probably won’t get it. If you don’t aggressively initiate the Counter Steer you will loose the opportunity to control when it initiates

I take it that say for a left turn, OUTSIDE is to the right and INSIDE is to the left so for a left turn countersteer is initiated by weighting the left grip and forward, and getting the rear to break free to the right correct?
 

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Hoops - Big and Small
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Counter Steering can be Counter Intuitive

mtnbkrdr98 said:
Head across the road at a slow speed on a shallow angle, then quickly turn the bike back the other direction by weighting the handlebars in the direction you are turning and pushing the rear out with your hips and feet in the other direction.

I take it that say for a left turn, OUTSIDE is to the right and INSIDE is to the left so for a left turn countersteer is initiated by weighting the left grip and forward, and getting the rear to break free to the right correct?
D your a Wikipedia guy, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering

Basically the direction your turning the inside hand has the control. Right hand turn initiate by putting forward pressure on your right grip (slight pressure to turn the front wheel slightly left) this moves your CG to right of centerline of the bike and you are now in a counter steering situation. Your rear wheel is to your left and you can lightly brake (shifting CG back left) at this point you shoot forward or you can keep the rear sliding to your left to keep the arc going.

One of the best places to practice this is a mild grade fire road with lots of sweeping turns with a loose surface to exaggerate the counter steer (8th street extension).

I think Lee calls this a "safety turn", pg 61 in Mastering Mountain Bike Skills.

You got this book?
 
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