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Out spokin'
In cog? Neato!
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Meanwhile, we have people in pissing contests about the tragedy of railing corners and controlled skidding ;)
Yes, we do.
Personally I've never subscribed to the notion that it's okay for me to act like a jerk so as long as somebody else is being a bigger jerk.
=sParty
 

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Disgruntled Peccary
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Have you considered that it could also be attitude?

I used to do a lot of OHV stuff too, until I grew tired of literally cleaning people's crap, along with their incessant and insistent excuses as to why they could take a dump there. Awfully familiar.
 

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Not sure how it is up in Flagstaff area, but where I used to live and do a lot of trail work the equestrians did the most trail damage and the least trail building/maintenance. I bet they only showed up to 1 work day every 5 years, it was pathetic. It was always mountain bikers who ended up filling 5 million hoof holes after the spring rains.
 

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change is good
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I hear this argument a lot. The ohv crowd has more state and federal money than all trail user groups combined, yet we get screwed on recreational trails pretty frequently. The equestrian community, an activity declining in total number of participants per capita compared to almost everything, has immense political clout. That and they have the romantic western stereotype tied to their activity. It doesn't matter that they will chew thru tread faster than anything on a non-motorized trail, even those fancy electric dirtbikes. So money doesn't talk, but horses apparently do.

Meanwhile, we have people in pissing contests about the tragedy of railing corners and controlled skidding ;)
Unfortunately that doesn’t surprise me. Coloradans call them Texas wheelchairs. When I lived near Louisville KY, the equestrians had a lot of clout and man could they f up a trail in one pass. I don’t see many equestrians out here and very little trail damage caused by them.


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change is good
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The Kaibab NF has a new Rec Staff Officer. Maybe things will be turning around there. Historically it seems like equestrian use has been the focus.
I never ridden it. Posters have commented about riding there years ago. I got the impression that it’s old school primitive and a tough up hill grunt.

Tourist town nearby. Elevation. Few hikers. Bikers coming from Phoenix, Vegas, Albuquerque to crush 5 or so double black (sustainable) trails could make a lot of people happy. Probably could get away with a $15 daily permit to promote feature building and trail maintenance.


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I never ridden it. Posters have commented about riding there years ago. I got the impression that it’s old school primitive and a tough up hill grunt.

Tourist town nearby. Elevation. Few hikers. Bikers coming from Phoenix, Vegas, Albuquerque to crush 5 or so double black (sustainable) trails could make a lot of people happy. Probably could get away with a $15 daily permit to promote feature building and trail maintenance.

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Yes, the trails on Bill Williams Mtn are old hiking trails. Not even remotely resembling anything purpose-built for multi-use including bikes but pretty fun though. Trails on the North Rim of the Grand Canyon are also Kaibab NF including Rainbow Rim. The partnership that owns Snowbowl also owns the small ski area there but haven't heard if they are planning any trails.
 

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¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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I hear this argument a lot. The ohv crowd has more state and federal money than all trail user groups combined, yet we get screwed on recreational trails pretty frequently. The equestrian community, an activity declining in total number of participants per capita compared to almost everything, has immense political clout. That and they have the romantic western stereotype tied to their activity. It doesn't matter that they will chew thru tread faster than anything on a non-motorized trail, even those fancy electric dirtbikes. So money doesn't talk, but horses apparently do.

Meanwhile, we have people in pissing contests about the tragedy of railing corners and controlled skidding ;)
So what you are saying is 2 wrongs make a right?

Oh, okay......


Bad Behavior and trail destruction by Equestrians is no excuse for bad behavior by any other trail group.

Stop pointing fingers at the other groups. This was not a story about an equestrian running hikers off the trail and galloping down in a dangerous manner.... No wonder our group is such easy pickings for the Sierra Club.....
 

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So what you are saying is 2 wrongs make a right?

Oh, okay......


Bad Behavior and trail destruction by Equestrians is no excuse for bad behavior by any other trail group.

Stop pointing fingers at the other groups. This was not a story about an equestrian running hikers off the trail and galloping down in a dangerous manner.... No wonder our group is such easy pickings for the Sierra Club.....
There's bad actors in every user group. We hashed this one out last year this time in a thread that was eventually closed. Thoughtless Equestrians

I was even accused of targeting by local Sierra Club representation using a screenshot from this thread. Make no mistake they are trolling this forum for anything to use against all the renegade mountain bikers running amok on public lands.
 

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Murica Man
Do it for Dale (#3)
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man equestrians piss me off. i was sitting at the edge of the access road and they rode by at a trot(?) and one of the horses started acting up. no apology from the rider. when i was riding back down to the parking lot, i almost rode through a long line of horse****. and there are several signs stating no horses at this trail. anyone else go to gateway park in gig harbor wa?
 

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Nah, there's bad apples in all user groups. We really don't need to go there. The best path forward is to advocate for purpose-built mtn bike trails where appropriate; otherwise we all have to share the same multi-use trails. We need better education and stewardship within our own user group just as all the others do. We can all do better.
 

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So what you are saying is 2 wrongs make a right?

Oh, okay......


Bad Behavior and trail destruction by Equestrians is no excuse for bad behavior by any other trail group.

Stop pointing fingers at the other groups. This was not a story about an equestrian running hikers off the trail and galloping down in a dangerous manner.... No wonder our group is such easy pickings for the Sierra Club.....
That's not what I said at all. I find nothing wrong with equestrians enjoying trails and the subsequent maintenance required. I feel the same way about mountainbikes roosting the occasional poorly designed corner. Don't hate the skidda, hate (poorly designed) trail.

Had you read my message correctly, you would have logically come to the conclusion that I am advocating for the production of a modern spaghetti western, where horses are replaced by mountainbikes. You know, the typical stuff, a railroad tycoon with a powerful grip over the fate of a small community, a drunk sheriff that is afraid of his own shadow, a ruthless group of banditos riding unrestricted Chinese e-bikes, and our cowboy hero outriding them all aboard a locally produced bike that cost more than a lightly used passenger car. Que roosting a corner into the sunset.

That or mountainbikers just need some political clout, though the movie idea sure sounds like more fun :) Former president Bush and former candidate Gary Johnson both enjoy mountainbiking. You might be surprised to find out how many land managers and their families enjoy a nice moutain bike ride as well. This is what other user groups do better than us... make powerful friends and advocate for their position. The minute you start pointing the finger at that pivot video and claiming trail destruction, you're missing the larger point... Designing and managing trails for the intended use is key, adapting to changing user patterns and conflicts is critical to the success of a trail system. And in your case Klurejr, an adult literacy or anger managment classes might help ;)
 

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The last hope for the lost.
No, I would say ignoring the message and taking the one statement made in jest is a clear indication of being lost....
I have to admit, you guys must have some real talent being able to ride while clutching pearls though, my hats off to you.
 

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¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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No, I would say ignoring the message and taking the one statement made in jest is a clear indication of being lost....
I have to admit, you guys must have some real talent being able to ride while clutching pearls though, my hats off to you.
I am pretty sure I took your comment in jest, that is why you put that smilie on the end and so did I...... 😜
 

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¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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You must have an itchy ban finger with all those baiting comments. Peculiar behavior for a moderator.
If that was the case I would have banned you already o_O

Back to the topic at hand. I understand your viewpoint, I am only partially onboard with what you are saying, but I also know I won't be changing your mind via a forum thread so I took a step back and just stopped commenting on the issue at hand.

I have been moderating here for 10 years, I have pretty thick skin as anyone who knows me can tell you.
 

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Out spokin'
In cog? Neato!
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Hypothetical situation: imagine there was a certain MTBR member somewhere within these forums that was a bad actor.
A rabble rouser, agitator, troublemaker, instigator. agent provocateur, mischief-maker, an incendiary, a demagogue, a troll.
If everyone here put this certain MTBR member on "ignore," then the ignored member would essentially have the site to himself.
Without even understanding he was actually isolated. He'd continue to wander this site believing his opinion was being considered.
When actually no one would see it.
He'd have no clue why no one was giving him the attention that all trolls so desperately crave.
For a while, anyway.
If none of his trolling produced any responses, he'd eventually be left wondering why.
Just a hypothetical situation, of course. Not that such a scenario could ever occur on MTBR IRL.
=sParty
 

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Hypothetical situation: imagine there was a certain MTBR member somewhere within these forums that was a bad actor.
A rabble rouser, agitator, troublemaker, instigator. agent provocateur, mischief-maker, an incendiary, a demagogue, a troll.
If everyone here put this certain MTBR member on "ignore," then the ignored member would essentially have the site to himself.
Without even understanding he was actually isolated. He'd continue to wander this site believing his opinion was being considered.
When actually no one would see it.
He'd have no clue why no one was giving him the attention that all trolls so desperately crave.
For a while, anyway.
If none of his trolling produced any responses, he'd eventually be left wondering why.
Just a hypothetical situation, of course. Not that such a scenario could ever occur on MTBR IRL.
=sParty
You and Klurejr can keep playing your games and commenting about trails in places you don't reside, don't ride, and certainly do not work on or maintain.

Makes you wonder who this mysterious bad actor you refer to really is. Do you see him in the mirror?
 
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