Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
341 - 360 of 361 Posts

·
Not a role model
Joined
·
1,312 Posts
Discussion Starter · #342 ·
You've been espousing your version of it for four pages, why ask us now?
Do you not have an opinion? I'm trying to get outside input, not explain my own for 4 pages. I've been repeatedly saying, this isn't some "help me" thread. It's one where I want to see pictures of what people think is a good position, and speculate how much more efficient it would be with some tweaks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,195 Posts
So all these positions that are successful, but are judged not to be good attack positions compared to the pros, are what? I called some of them to be defensive, and some to be roadie-inspired, but said they're uncomfortable looking, and that techniques probably required moving back to a neutral position to be executed, wasting time and energy.
...Bold is mine

I'm out of this thread after this (took me longer than others since I didn't start when it started), but dude, safe yourself the time and energy here. Using the words looking and probably makes what you're doing a random guess. You're tackling something that isn't even a problem to any actual rider and even your evidence to convince yourself is speculation.

Let me help you with that last part, you're right that a neutral position is required to execute something, but you seem to think that there's one specific neutral position. There isn't. First of all, it's different for each technique. Getting over a rock will be different than taking a turn which is different than getting through a tricky narrow passage. And now take any one of those techniques that one may claim has a specific neural/ideal position to attempt, well, now change the run up to that obstacle. That same rock that you need to make over....if you're on a flat vs. descent vs. climb vs. any other number of things will now modify that position.

This is why a rider just needs a neutral position....because it's fluid. It's not static.

Good luck and peace out!
 

·
Not a role model
Joined
·
1,312 Posts
Discussion Starter · #344 ·
If I wanted scientific answers, I'd ask scientists. How do you experiment on this, with a scientific approach? Build your own terrain and build your own varied test mule bikes, loaded with data logging? Use a human or a robot (e.g. can be advanced like disney's acrobatic robot)?

What's the reason why the neutral position changes? Do you deny that the bike's geo and the fitment of the rider on it affects this greatly?

I already suggested that the neutral position doesn't have to change based on slope, with my claim that the rigged crash test dummy with gimbal to hold the back angle steady can successfully straight line terrain w/jumps, drops, chunk, and that it's simply the bike that pitches up and down underneath it. Are you suggesting that there's a "different ready position" mid-turn, as if you can perform another technique within a technique? What forces the cornering position to change? Can bike geo improve it to make it more efficient?

You make it sound like a rider makes a lot of movements to their "ready position", but the difference between various ready positions seems hard to detect, besides bump absorption and executing sharp, but subtle techniques to change the direction of the bike. I wouldn't call those movements as them getting more ready... more like the ready position is what they're returning to, and what they're executing techniques from.


Notice how he pedals all the way up to the sender (1:10) with hardly a pause before. I see many cases where riders stop pedaling way before hitting these kind of things. I suspect it's geo to blame, making it so the standing pedaling position is in a different spot from the ideal ready position to go off the jump safely with balance maintained. Richie Rude's bike is one that I claim has the balance I'm looking for (Med SB150, not large, not small, not XL, but Med only)--that CS to WB ratio, 435mm to 1225mm in this case, that gets the balance point aligned with the out-of-saddle pedaling position.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,195 Posts
If I wanted scientific answers, I'd ask scientists. How do you experiment on this, with a scientific approach? Build your own terrain and build your own varied test mule bikes, loaded with data logging? Use a human or a robot (e.g. can be advanced like disney's acrobatic robot)?

What's the reason why the neutral position changes? Do you deny that the bike's geo and the fitment of the rider on it affects this greatly?

Ugh...you sucked me back in....

I explained specifically why it changes....because no two obstacles are the same or the run up to those obstacles. Since it all changes, the rider has to adjust based on that. You go over 100 rocks in a ride, you may have 100 different attack positions.

...and I agree with geo and fit are extremely important, but not nearly as much for the attack position, since it's likely that the rider is off the seat anyway. They're adjusting to the terrain as they ride. It would be more relevant to someone who's just sitting on the seat in a static position riding along, but then they're not really in an attack position. I'm good with current geometry and fit and all of the companies and people over the decades of refinement of the mtb frame.

I'd be good with experimenting on new methods and theories, but this one to me doesn't make sense. I don't think comfort as an issue for riders, and certainly not one that is holding them back. Even if this were the case, your argument that there is just one position for a rider to be in an attack positions just makes no logical sense.
 

·
Location: 10 ft from Hell
Joined
·
4,492 Posts
Do you not have an opinion? I'm trying to get outside input, not explain my own for 4 pages. I've been repeatedly saying, this isn't some "help me" thread. It's one where I want to see pictures of what people think is a good position, and speculate how much more efficient it would be with some tweaks.



I as well as many other posters offered it up on the first page, anything after that was mental masturbation on your part. Unsatisfying and incomplete at that. But you'll continue to ignore everyone and continue to beat this unicorn to death for four more pages when at last this thread will be put down, just like the unicorn that you've beaten to death.
 

·
well mannered lout
Joined
·
3,175 Posts
So we're back to making new definitions of what the attack position is... the semantics game again.
Whatever. Maybe I'm just closed minded? You go off with your pencil and ruler and tech articles and become the rider you want to be.
 

·
Self Appointed Judge&Jury
Joined
·
40,768 Posts
Every time I open this thread I either shake my head in disgust or laugh. My necks getting tired from the side to side motion.
 

·
Fat and bouncy
Joined
·
552 Posts
Sounds like you're in the wrong position - check the leg and backrest angles of your chair.
 

·
Self Appointed Judge&Jury
Joined
·
40,768 Posts
Sounds like you're in the wrong position - check the leg and backrest angles of your chair.
I’m currently lying in bed. Kind of a soft mattress so maybe that’s the issue.
 

·
i ride bikes
2019 Norco Range A2
Joined
·
94 Posts
Agree.

This is basically what it looks like but every individual is different.

View attachment 1232052

As long as you are standing and allowing the bike to flow beneath you. Everything else comes natural.
late response lol, but shouldn't the rider keep his eyes and head looking forward.. not at the front wheel?
 

·
Self Appointed Judge&Jury
Joined
·
40,768 Posts
late response lol, but shouldn't the rider keep his eyes and head looking forward.. not at the front wheel?
Correct, and in the photo he is looking ahead and not at the front wheel. I took the liberty of adding a line of sight from what we can tell of how his head is angled. Looking even further down the trail would be more ideal.
BTW Thanks for the memories of this thread. Lol

Bicycle Wheel Tire Bicycles--Equipment and supplies Bicycle frame
 

·
Rippin da fAt
Joined
·
9,052 Posts
Y'all know what the term "situational" means, so add that to the equation...
 
341 - 360 of 361 Posts
Top