[Impetus]

So, I did it. I’ve read about the Hayes brakes for like a year, and after never finding the ‘Goldilocks’ brake, I bit the bullet, obliterated my wallet and strapped up some A4s.

but I’m not thrilled with them.



I’ve had
Shimano- stick in the spokes lol.
SRAM- hot weather killed seals and they lock up
Magura- loved them, but levers were crazy fragile; I broke 2 masters in a year.
Shigura- awesome but WTF ‘fiddly’. Always aligning the calipers, resetting pads, etc.
TRP Slate T4- loved everything about them, but they need like 30% more power.
TRP Trail EVO- (borrowed a friends bike for a while) great but still pretty ‘Shimano-y grabby’

So I tried the A4s, with Hayes D-series rotors.

I want so bad to love these (after spending $600 on brakes, rotors, 203 adapter, and a bleed kit)

the thing is, I’ve bled them both multiple times, done the double- caliper flush thing, and even tried over filling, but they have SUCH A LONG lever throw.
At ‘full power’ squeeze, the lever blade touches my middle knuckle.
it’s a good firm lever feel, and the brakes have great (not earth-stopping) power, it just moves really far. I have the reach adjust probably 3/4 out.

anyone got any tips to shorten the throw?
At this point I’m close to PinkBike’ing them and buying TRP EVO because I just can’t get comfortable with them.

 

[KGAmoto]

I’m here to merely mirror your thoughts. We have all the brake sets here and we all swap them every month or so.

I JUST put the A4s on my own bike and the long throw was the first thing I noticed.

For what it’s worth, I did the bleed in 3 steps. Master cylinder to Port 1, MC to Port 2 then Port 1 to Port 2.

From what I have read, the reach adjust isn’t really meant to be adjusted.

One of our sales reps also sells Hayes. I will talk to him tomorrow and get his input on the lever throw and will post back here to offer whatever info I come up with.

PS - the TRP DHR-EVOs are insanely good. With a smoother-biting brake pad; they modulate like crazy, are absolutely consistent at the lever and have boat loads of power.

But I’ll try to figure out the Hayes issue….stand by.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Impetus]

I’m here to merely mirror your thoughts. We have all the brake sets here and we all swap them every month or so.

I JUST put the A4s on my own bike and the long throw was the first thing I noticed.

For what it’s worth, I did the bleed in 3 steps. Master cylinder to Port 1, MC to Port 2 then Port 1 to Port 2.

From what I have read, the reach adjust isn’t really meant to be adjusted.

One of our sales reps also sells Hayes. I will talk to him tomorrow and get his input on the lever throw and will post back here to offer whatever info I come up with.

PS - the TRP DHR-EVOs are insanely good. With a smoother-biting brake pad; they modulate like crazy, are absolutely consistent at the lever and have boat loads of power.

But I’ll try to figure out the Hayes issue….stand by.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I appreciate you asking the rep.

I really like these brakes- the light lever action, the lever shape, the power is good, the modulation is good, the bleed was easy and mess-free.
I just can’t get used to how far I have to pull the lever.

re: reach adjust- I’m talking about the dial on the lever blade, not the 2mm hex bolt behind the MC. I’m aware that Hayes says it’s a factory-set bite point adjust, and not to mess with that, and I haven’t.
I have ‘average size hands’. I wear a medium glove.
Right now, I’m running the levers way out away from the bars, really only the pad of my index finger hooks over the lever blade, at the end near the hook. It feels pretty reach-y to get to the lever, but any closer and it gets uncomfortably close to the bars.
Maybe I’ll try to upload a pic tomorrow of ‘resting’ vs ‘pulled’

 

[keen]

I just has a set of A4's roll through my garage. Friend bought a set to replace a set of Shimano Deores. When talking about MC contact point I like to take caliper piston movement out of the equation. With caliper off the bike I will place spacers in between the pads until there isn't a shred of space for the pistons to move then give the lever a squeeze. I noticed the Dominion lever contact point was short but had a springy feel that gave away to extra lever movement. Once installed & ridden it was noted the lever action was very light followed by strong braking. I took the bike for a spin and felt the lever was almost too light - I am use to my old Hayes Prime that feel wooden. I have read a lot of positive Dominion reviews so it would be interesting to see if this is a problem or the nature of these brakes.

 

[PatRidesBikes]

Did you bleed them with the hayes bleed kit? I got a new set, and got the bleed kit and just took it straight to my bike shop for them to mount up. They are awesome, they stop me on a dime at DH parks and I weigh about 230lbs.

Maybe if you're using a different bleed kit, it's leaving some air in the system??

 

[KGAmoto]

Did you bleed them with the hayes bleed kit? I got a new set, and got the bleed kit and just took it straight to my bike shop for them to mount up. They are awesome, they stop me on a dime at DH parks and I weigh about 230lbs.

Maybe if you're using a different bleed kit, it's leaving some air in the system??

I can’t speak for the poster of this, but no that’s not it. He’s referring to the long distance that the lever has to move before it engages.

I’ve had these on my bike a couple different times; the second time I did their thorough 3-phase bleed (with their kit, which is nice btw) and the throw distance is the same.

I swap brakes on my own bike every month or so for work and this one has more throw than most. I get used to it but ideally it could be less of a distance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Harold]

I don't have over-large hands, but I do have long fingers (medium to large glove depending on brand). I find that the lever throw works well for me.

Is it possible you need the short finger lever?

Hayes Dominion Replacement Brake Lever - Fanatik Bike Co.

 

[Impetus]

I’m using the Hayes Pro Bleed kit, man that sucker was expensive, I’ll admit it’s a really nice kit.
I had no problems with performing the bleed- it actually went well.
KGAMoto is correct, it’s not the bleed, it’s the lever throw length. Once the pads make contact, after like, what feels like a full inch of pull, they work great.

@Harold, I’ve seen the SFL before, I keep wondering what the difference is in the shape besides just taking Hayes’ word for it that it’s better for ‘small’ hands.

 

[Harold]

@Harold, I’ve seen the SFL before, I keep wondering what the difference is in the shape besides just taking Hayes’ word for it that it’s better for ‘small’ hands.

If you click between the standard and the SFL on the link I sent, you can see the dimension that they change. It looks like part of it brings the lever a bit closer to the bar. Which it doesn't necessarily sound like you need. That said, it looks like it would change some aspects of the lever throw, as well.

How far out do you have the reach adjusted to get it where you have it now (which sounds like it's very close to "too far" from the bar)? How much more adjustment is there on either end? Are you closer to the "closest to the bar" setting, or closer to the "farthest from the bar" setting?

 

[Impetus]

If you click between the standard and the SFL on the link I sent, you can see the dimension that they change. It looks like part of it brings the lever a bit closer to the bar. Which it doesn't necessarily sound like you need. That said, it looks like it would change some aspects of the lever throw, as well.

How far out do you have the reach adjusted to get it where you have it now (which sounds like it's very close to "too far" from the bar)? How much more adjustment is there on either end? Are you closer to the "closest to the bar" setting, or closer to the "farthest from the bar" setting?

I agree with all you just said- I’m not sure the SFL would improve my situation.

right now, the levers are dialed about 3/4 of the way OUT away from the bar. This makes them feel really good when pulled, but only the last knuckle of my index finger reaches the lever when at rest.

 

[Harold]

I agree with all you just said- I’m not sure the SFL would improve my situation.

right now, the levers are dialed about 3/4 of the way OUT away from the bar. This makes them feel really good when pulled, but only the last knuckle of my index finger reaches the lever when at rest.

If they're dialed that far out, then yeah, the SFL probably wouldn't do what you want. And honestly, that's exactly where you want the lever blade to be when you're at rest, simply covering the lever.

I'd like to see some pics (at rest, and lever pulled).

 

[Kmag76]

So, I did it. I’ve read about the Hayes brakes for like a year, and after never finding the ‘Goldilocks’ brake, I bit the bullet, obliterated my wallet and strapped up some A4s. View attachment 1958204

but I’m not thrilled with them.



I’ve had
Shimano- stick in the spokes lol.
SRAM- hot weather killed seals and they lock up
Magura- loved them, but levers were crazy fragile; I broke 2 masters in a year.
Shigura- awesome but WTF ‘fiddly’. Always aligning the calipers, resetting pads, etc.
TRP Slate T4- loved everything about them, but they need like 30% more power.
TRP Trail EVO- (borrowed a friends bike for a while) great but still pretty ‘Shimano-y grabby’

So I tried the A4s, with Hayes D-series rotors.

I want so bad to love these (after spending $600 on brakes, rotors, 203 adapter, and a bleed kit)

the thing is, I’ve bled them both multiple times, done the double- caliper flush thing, and even tried over filling, but they have SUCH A LONG lever throw.
At ‘full power’ squeeze, the lever blade touches my middle knuckle.
it’s a good firm lever feel, and the brakes have great (not earth-stopping) power, it just moves really far. I have the reach adjust probably 3/4 out.

anyone got any tips to shorten the throw?
At this point I’m close to PinkBike’ing them and buying TRP EVO because I just can’t get comfortable with them.

For comparison I use dominion A4, MT7 and Braking Incas 2.
I’ve had good luck with the A4/2mm Galfer rotor/MTX gold pads or the hayes sintured.
My lever throw is minimal.

I’m not sure where I originally watched the bleed procedure video, but one of the steps was to pull the lever assembly off and mount it to another set of handle bars @a 45degree angle while bleeding.

I ended up with a great bleed with min lever throw.

Here is a pic of my lever pulled back, this is where it makes contact with the rotor.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[slimat99]

Isn't this a trait of these brakes? I've read reviews that mentioned you can pull the lever closer to the bar without the firm end stroke resistance of other brakes. I have no experience with them. They would be my next brake choice if I choose to move on from mt5's.

 

[Kmag76]

For my bleed I used a Park bleed kit with their bleed blocks.
And here are 2 pics of resting and lever pulled to make contact with the rotor.

Are your pads worn? I noticed as my last set of pads wore, I started getting a lot of lever throw.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[keen]

I wear XXL gloves. When I installed the A4's I had the lever a tip a good 1/2" out farther than my brake setup. I didn't notice the "springy" lever until I brought the reach in further. I tend to rest my index finger on the levers and the light action A4's caused a few unintentional braking events. My buddy has been on them for a few rides and prefers the braking over his XT's.

 

[ijak]

I agree with all you just said- I’m not sure the SFL would improve my situation.

right now, the levers are dialed about 3/4 of the way OUT away from the bar. This makes them feel really good when pulled, but only the last knuckle of my index finger reaches the lever when at rest.

I think we all need some numbers to determine your throw situation. From your finger rest point to making pads contact, how many mm of throw are we talking about? Based on KMAG76's photo, his brake is about 10-12mm throw which is pretty solid.

 

[Impetus]

I think we all need some numbers to determine your throw situation. From your finger rest point to making pads contact, how many mm of throw are we talking about? Based on KMAG76's photo, his brake is about 10-12mm throw which is pretty solid.

I took a tape measure out to the bike, and quickly realized there’s about 5 ways to measure the lever throw, so I didn’t explore that as much. With a standard tape measure, I’d eyeball it at like 2.5 inches of pull if I put the tape just outboard of the end of the lever. Measured from the little saddle of the lever near the pivot, it’s probably a pinch over 1/2 inch. 9/16?
Below is a pic of ‘no brake’ vs firm pad contact. would be a strong brake, but there’s a few mm left that I could pull if in a panic.

 

[keen]

My observation was even though the lever had a very light pull it was stopping more than my wooden primes for the same amount of throw. OP are you running Sintered or Semi metallics?

 

[Impetus]

My observation was even though the lever had a very light pull it was stopping more than my wooden primes for the same amount of throw. OP are you running Sintered or Semi metallics?

Stock semi-metallic.

I measured the pads, both those and sintered were the same thickness.🤷‍♂️

 

[KGAmoto]

Stock semi-metallic.

I measured the pads, both those and sintered were the same thickness.

All brake pads are 4mm give or take when new. 3.87mm to 3.9mm if you want to be really specific.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk